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EU copyright reform: the facts

blog.mozilla.org

11–20 of 110 posts

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#11

Whether or not you agree with the copyright reforms, it is not helpful to present these opinions (e.g. 'will negatively affect...') as fact. You may as well stand outside the legislative building with a placard. To my mind, it's impossible to take part in the debate until you've realised that your position is a point of view; that other have a different point of view; and that compromise is going to be necessary.

How fitting that your username is a sort of false "equivalence".

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#12
post #2

Holy crap on a stick. These new laws are just stupid. I don't generally see eye to eye with libertarians (or whoever advocates for minimal interference of state), but out of touch laws like this are just the worst.

The EU and its member states have a penchant for crazy laws like this, GDPR, local movie quotas on services like Netflix, arresting people who train their dog to do a bellamy salute, arresting people for having potato peelers in public, and so on. I can't think of a single reason other than vacation days that I'd ever want to live there. I'm aware comparisons to 1984 are a cliche but the EU truly has been inching tow…

Come on now. You cannot compare this to GPDR. GPDR was about protecting individuals, this is about protecting corporate interests. That's why this seems batshit crazy and GPDR is reasonable.

The rest of your points are worthless anecdotes. Yes it may have happened once, and yes it was stupid, but it's not like you will be chased down by the police if you walk around with a potato peeler. You cannot seriously believe that.

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#13
From the viewpoint of regulations on business:

- GDPR (Facebook/Google)

- Article 11 (Reddit)

- Article 13 (Github)

- Mandated EU Content on streaming providers (Netflix)

- EU Internet sales tax (Amazon)

The simple question begs: how many more regulations aimed at US companies are coming?

At this rate, the more regulations are created at fighting US companies. The number of internet startups and business located in the EU will one day cycle downward to zero.

What are they going to do next?

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#14

Whether or not you agree with the copyright reforms, it is not helpful to present these opinions (e.g. 'will negatively affect...') as fact. You may as well stand outside the legislative building with a placard. To my mind, it's impossible to take part in the debate until you've realised that your position is a point of view; that other have a different point of view; and that compromise is going to be necessary.

I don't agree with these copyright reforms, but I do agree with you. I remember thinking when the swedish pirate party got started in 2006 that it was already late to talk about these issues. Because there had already been so much written about it in the '90s and early '00. Now more than 10 years later neither the tech companies nor "the community" have dealt with any of it. Instead they have been chasing opportunities, not willing to do anything that might jeopardize their own position. Eventually reality just catches up with you and whoever can present a solution will get their chance.

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#15

Whether or not you agree with the copyright reforms, it is not helpful to present these opinions (e.g. 'will negatively affect...') as fact. You may as well stand outside the legislative building with a placard. To my mind, it's impossible to take part in the debate until you've realised that your position is a point of view; that other have a different point of view; and that compromise is going to be necessary.

It suits that the comment text became gray, as this is a textbook "Argument to moderation" fallacy (aka "Fallacy of gray").

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#16
post #2

Holy crap on a stick. These new laws are just stupid. I don't generally see eye to eye with libertarians (or whoever advocates for minimal interference of state), but out of touch laws like this are just the worst.

The EU and its member states have a penchant for crazy laws like this, GDPR, local movie quotas on services like Netflix, arresting people who train their dog to do a bellamy salute, arresting people for having potato peelers in public, and so on. I can't think of a single reason other than vacation days that I'd ever want to live there. I'm aware comparisons to 1984 are a cliche but the EU truly has been inching tow…

Some of us actually do live here. And some of us absolutely share your views.

But you need look no further than this very forum to see one country's feeble attempts to leave the sorry cirkus habitually likened to the end of civilisation as we know it.

We're on a road to nowhere good whatsoever.

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#17
post #8

"Only a handful of the largest tech companies have the technical and financial means to operate the sprawling filtering systems that this law demands." The smaller platforms often use under the hood Amazon AWS, Google Cloud or equivalent. Probably the copyright verification is going to be added at that level, and hopefully will be transparent to the platforms built on top of those cloud services. So hopefully, this w…

> So hopefully, this will not impact smaller SaaS companies as much as it might look.

... this would not impact smaller SaaS companies ...

This isn't a law yet and I don't think most people want it to become one.

That said, I disagree that this isn't a terrible burden for the small guy. Even if it would be trivial to set up, all the other downsides remain and it leads to lock-in in the form of dependence on large companies who have implemented this.

More importantly, why do we want this? What benefits does this bring? I don't see many for the ordinary person.

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#18
post #2

Holy crap on a stick. These new laws are just stupid. I don't generally see eye to eye with libertarians (or whoever advocates for minimal interference of state), but out of touch laws like this are just the worst.

The EU and its member states have a penchant for crazy laws like this, GDPR, local movie quotas on services like Netflix, arresting people who train their dog to do a bellamy salute, arresting people for having potato peelers in public, and so on. I can't think of a single reason other than vacation days that I'd ever want to live there. I'm aware comparisons to 1984 are a cliche but the EU truly has been inching tow…

> GDPR

“My oh my, we won't be able to sell people online life without them knowing it”

> local movie quotas on services like Netflix

Promoting local culture, what a shame.

> arresting people who train their dog to do a bellamy salute

Of course, if someone is training their dog to do a “Bellamy” salute when prompted by statements including “Heil Hitler” and “gas the Jews”, the chances that this guy is a closet neo-nazi are so low[0] – BTW, you're the only one presenting it as a Bellamy salute, that sounds like if you were trying to cover a neo-nazi.

> I can't think of a single reason other than vacation days that I'd ever want to live there.

Nah, even for vacations, please don't come here, it's awful, you wouldn't like it.

[0] https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/scottish-man-who-t...

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#19
post #2

Holy crap on a stick. These new laws are just stupid. I don't generally see eye to eye with libertarians (or whoever advocates for minimal interference of state), but out of touch laws like this are just the worst.

The EU and its member states have a penchant for crazy laws like this, GDPR, local movie quotas on services like Netflix, arresting people who train their dog to do a bellamy salute, arresting people for having potato peelers in public, and so on. I can't think of a single reason other than vacation days that I'd ever want to live there. I'm aware comparisons to 1984 are a cliche but the EU truly has been inching tow…

That’s pure trolling:

First off, the Article 13 in question was already rejected once by Parliament and is expected to be repealed against (but it doesn’t hurt to be cautious, good on Mozilla).

> GDPR

While not uncontroversial, GDPR is generally seen as a good thing by experts.

> arresting people who train their dog to do a bellamy salute

This didn’t happen. The man was arrested for hate speech, not for gestures his dog made. It’s also unrelated to EU law.

> arresting people for having potato peelers in public

This didn’t happen. The man was arrested for wielding a weapon in public. This weapon happened to be a knife (but not a potato peeler, though it was called that by the press: it had a fixed > 3″ long blade) but the nature of the weapon is secondary; what’s relevant for the arrest was the fact that the man wielded it as a weapon. And, again, this has nothing to do with EU legislation. And some additional context: the knife wielding laws in the UK are indeed pretty draconian but the UK, which is generally pretty low on violent crimes, has a specific problem with knife crimes and is therefore tackling the problem heads-on. Seems reasonable.

> I can't think of a single reason other than vacation days that I'd ever want to live there.

Really? https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/rankings_by_country.j...

(In fact, even with occasional questionable laws being passed on EU levels the legal situation in the EU, both on EU and on country level, is still a lot saner than e.g. in the US.)

Re: EU copyright reform: the facts

#20
Is there a simple, objective summary of the proposed rules? Everything I've seen is propaganda trying to convince me they're the end of the internet, which makes me quite wary of the authors' motivations.
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