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Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

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121–130 of 147 posts

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's staggering that this is the top voted comment. > car loan most of America doesn't have any way of getting to jobs without one > eat anything but rice and beans most people need fundamental nutrients from vegetables just to be able to survive, these vegetables tend to be more expensive than less healthy things > a >$30 month cell phone bill internet access gates opportunity in American and for many people their c…

> most of America doesn't have any way of getting to jobs without one Two things: 1. That's patently false. Most trips in vehicles are between 1 and 10 miles in distance. Anyone without serious health problems can do that on a bicycle quite easily. 2. You don't need a car loan to own a car. > most people need fundamental nutrients from vegetables just to be able to survive, these vegetables tend to be more expensive…

That means a 45 min long trip each day to work. Hopefully you have a shower and clothes change, I'm assuming very fast driving here. Otherwise 2h each averaging "comfortable but fast" 10 mph. (silly units) Good luck trying to actually hold such an average.

Dependents will be a major problem in such a scheme, adding another 2 hours. Unless there is a good bus connection, give it half an hour then. (those are not free but still inexpensive)

Libraries put even more pressure on transportation. It should be cheaper to use a mail order service. Heck, even for bigger groceries.

These are costs all hidden in plain sight. Everything takes a lot of time in the US if your mode of transport is not a car.

Now to own a cheap used car also has costs. And a poor person cannot afford a cheap modern car, used car market is full of landmines and a poorer person cannot afford even one failure in this regard.

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#122

If you turn 65 in 2040 or 2050 or 2060 Some historical perspective: My understanding is that when Social Security was created, the average life expectancy was 67. So offering it for people age 65 was intended as providing for people in extreme old age who had probably worked physically hard their entire lives and were pretty beat up. I'm not saying we don't have genuine problems here, but this article is bellyaching…

Some historical perspective: My understanding is that when Social Security was created, the average life expectancy was 67. While this is true, I think it's a misleading statistic. The relevant figure, it seems to me, is not life expectancy at birth, but life expectancy at age 65 (because the latter determines social security outlay). In the 1930s, a 65 year old could expect to live for about 12 more years, while in…

Yes, but a lot more working-age adults today make it to 65 than 100 years ago, which is a relevant statistic. Previously you could count on a bigger portion of workers dying before reaching retirement, so you had a smaller pool of retirees to take care of. Today practically every worker makes it to retirement age.

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and their housing costs were not 50-75% of their salary But our grandparents did predominately live in rural areas. You can still live quite affordably in rural areas now. Most people just aren't happy with that lifestyle anymore. Additionally, the majority of our grandparents didn't own their homes. If the majority of us were okay with renting like our grandparents were, you wouldn't see the irrational behaviour o…

The opportunities to make a living in rural areas aren't really there any more. Unless you mean to move to a rural area when you retire.

Unless you're very physically fit, rural work will break you in old age.

Good luck retiring to a farm. Even better luck getting health care there.

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and their housing costs were not 50-75% of their salary But our grandparents did predominately live in rural areas. You can still live quite affordably in rural areas now. Most people just aren't happy with that lifestyle anymore. Additionally, the majority of our grandparents didn't own their homes. If the majority of us were okay with renting like our grandparents were, you wouldn't see the irrational behaviour o…

The opportunities to make a living in rural areas aren't really there any more. Unless you mean to move to a rural area when you retire.

How true is that really though? While I am in Canada and you're probably in the US, I always heard that repeated about here too, but when I started looking at the data I realized it is actually a rural area that has the strongest job market in the country (most job growth, lowest unemployment, etc.).

I'm not as familiar with how to navigate the BLS to see what things are like stateside at a localized level, but you might want to look more closely. You may be surprised. I was.

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most of America doesn't have any way of getting to jobs without one Two things: 1. That's patently false. Most trips in vehicles are between 1 and 10 miles in distance. Anyone without serious health problems can do that on a bicycle quite easily. 2. You don't need a car loan to own a car. > most people need fundamental nutrients from vegetables just to be able to survive, these vegetables tend to be more expensive…

That means a 45 min long trip each day to work. Hopefully you have a shower and clothes change, I'm assuming very fast driving here. Otherwise 2h each averaging "comfortable but fast" 10 mph. (silly units) Good luck trying to actually hold such an average. Dependents will be a major problem in such a scheme, adding another 2 hours. Unless there is a good bus connection, give it half an hour then. (those are not free…

> Otherwise 2h each averaging "comfortable but fast" 10 mph. (silly units) Good luck trying to actually hold such an average.

What? I'd bet 99% of the people on a cheap road bike could get to 12-15 mph without even thinking about trying. 10 mph requires a ridiculously low 0.4 W/kg power output. (For reference, walking up stairs requires around 2.5 W/kg.)

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The opportunities to make a living in rural areas aren't really there any more. Unless you mean to move to a rural area when you retire.

Unless you're very physically fit, rural work will break you in old age. Good luck retiring to a farm. Even better luck getting health care there.

Does one need to be more physically fit to be a developer in a rural area (I know of several places hiring) as opposed to the big city? In fact, the data suggests that city dwellers are statistically more fit as they are more likely to walk everywhere, while rural people are more likely to drive to their desk job.

Agricultural work can be available in rural areas, but even in the most agriculturally productive areas, makes up a small portion of the workforce. The age where the majority of the population are farmers is long gone. Even within the agricultural sector, a lot of the work is in front of a desk.

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#127
post #97

C'mooon > The IRA won’t make anyone rich. A calculator on the site estimates that if you’re 22 years old and making $14 an hour–saving around $120 a month–you could end up with around $230,000 by the time you’re 65 1. $14 / hour? The median household (yes, I know, household, but wait) income is the highest it's been since at least 1985 [1] at $59k/year. So $14 is definitely a bit lower than "normal". 2. Saving $120/m…

>eat anything but rice and beans ... This reads like a descent into satire.

I prefer Pork and Beans myself. But perhaps people who eat Pork and Beans are supposed to be poor?

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're broke . If you're in debt, you absolutely should be making some sacrifices to get out of debt. Once you have some money saved, feel free to spend on the luxuries you most desire.

But you mentioned car and internet services, those are not luxuries in this day and age when they are required for work

Car and/or internet aren't required for all work.

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's staggering that this is the top voted comment. > car loan most of America doesn't have any way of getting to jobs without one > eat anything but rice and beans most people need fundamental nutrients from vegetables just to be able to survive, these vegetables tend to be more expensive than less healthy things > a >$30 month cell phone bill internet access gates opportunity in American and for many people their c…

This idea that having a car and eating more than beans and water means you’re spending too much comes from those (slightly fanatical) Money Mustache followers. I agree that we should not advocate for a world where we have to sacrifice a middle class lifestyle in order to retire middle class.

I think you're solely being downvoted for "bashing" MMM.

Agreed, MMM followers are die-hard. And I honestly applaud them for that. There's a middle road he also preaches about, realizing his method won't work for most people. Though I'd bet that most people don't get that far in his blog when he begins to talk about that.

I think if we use the big takeaways from what he's saying; we can all gain a little financial independence. Not everyone can get away with what he can in a beautiful town in Colorado. And he realizes that.

They're all saying the same sorts of things: Financial Advisors, Dave Ramsey, MMM et. al. The fact that most people aren't listening to them is the truly alarming part of it: Save, and don't overspend; or you'll be working for the rest of your life.

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#130

If you turn 65 in 2040 or 2050 or 2060 Some historical perspective: My understanding is that when Social Security was created, the average life expectancy was 67. So offering it for people age 65 was intended as providing for people in extreme old age who had probably worked physically hard their entire lives and were pretty beat up. I'm not saying we don't have genuine problems here, but this article is bellyaching…

This is not emphasized enough: prior to the last 100 years, the concept of retirement as currently visualized simply did not exist. You had kids, and the kids took care of you in your old age (or you just had a terrible old age). A very small number of people had the resource base to survive growing old gracefully: Social Security was an attempt to extend that to all on a consistent basis. That's not to say some form…

> A very small number of people had the resource base to survive growing old gracefully: Social Security was an attempt to extend that to all on a consistent basis.

It was designed as a safety net for lower/middle income, disabled workers, and benefactors to workers; not a primary source of retirement income. It's becoming more and more apparent that it's the former, not the latter.

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