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We know music is pleasurable, the question is why?

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Re: We know music is pleasurable, the question is why?

#51

Post by mopierotti »

default-kramer wrote: post #21

> There is something that still rings true of Mattheson’s general idea. We do tend to associate some musical features with being uplifted and others with melancholic reflection, both of which might afford a certain subsequent pleasure to listeners. I have always wondered if we know how much of the emotion associated with music is learned from culture. To put it another way, is a sad song inherently sad? Or is it sad…

I'm a fan of the cross modal congruence school of thought here. In which experiences in one sense are similar in structure to experiences in another sense, imparting them meaning. For example, "Flight of the Bumblebee" by Rimsky-Korsakov (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M93qXQWaBdE), in which the franticness of the notes/rhythm have a similar variance and speed to what you see visually when watching a bee fly around. Or maybe even what you imagine the bee's internal thought process would be like.

I'm not sure if "cross modal congruence" is an actual term people use however, someone correct me if you know a more accurate label.

Re: We know music is pleasurable, the question is why?

#52

Post by drblast »

qznc wrote: post #47
rimunroe wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoa! I had no idea this was a thing! I'd always thought it was just some weird thing about me. I don't really get a whole lot of pleasure out of music, or get moved by music much. I almost never listen to music. When I do listen, it's usually to drown out external noise or help me focus, but in that case I usually just listen to the same song on a loop.

Me too. And by the way, since HN talked about Anki a few days ago [0], this is a nice little fact which I just entered into my database. Copy&pasted the first line of the Wikipedia article and used the cloze mechanism the ask for the term and its definition. Now I will never forget about musical anhedonia anymore. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17846356

This is fascinating! Can any of you with musical anhedonia watch either of these songs and explain how you feel?

https://youtu.be/SS0NHlWgi5w?t=3m22s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi5A9OCAyIk

Re: We know music is pleasurable, the question is why?

#53

Post by deltron3030 »

Imagination. Sounds connect with you deeply, and even deeper than visuals. You can sing and make melodies without physical movements, without moving your lips, just in your mind. Your inner voice that you "hear" when you think is an artist that grows through immersion, exposure to things.

The real difficulty is translating that into physical movements through your body, making it real, this can only be done through practice.

If you listen to good musicians amd really like what you hear, they basically talk to your inner artist on the same skill level.

Re: We know music is pleasurable, the question is why?

#54

Post by twelvechairs »

Nobody attempting seriously and succintly to answer the question here even the article.

As far as i understand pattern recognition is basically what the cortex (in all its various divisions) does. Which is basically one of our most important higher functions and what sets mammals apart from other animals intelectually.

Recognising a melody is not so different from recognising the voice of a friend or the route to walk home. Except for different input types.

Except the fact that music and melody/harmony is not just 'match a pattern' but is designed essentially to tease, test and develop the pattern recognition function by taking simple clear ratios then finding ways to make them a little on edge mathematically in different ways.

So we shouldnt find it weird that music can give most of us pleasure itself because its literally the same mecahnism as things that are finding food or a good partner to mate with.

Then theres lyrics and the social side of music which puts a whole different twist on it. The above is pure rhythm and pitch only enjoyed individually.

Re: We know music is pleasurable, the question is why?

#55

Post by 0xdeadbeefbabe »

lqet wrote: post #2

Related: recent studies have shown that there are people with "musical anhedonia", and that this condition may affect 3 to 5% of the world population [1]. These people "get" music, meaning that they can learn to sing or play an instrument, remember and recognize melodies etc., but they are completely unable to receive any pleasure from it. As someone who gets a significant amount of his daily joy from listening to mu…

There are also people who can't concentrate while listening to music.

Re: We know music is pleasurable, the question is why?

#56

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

crazynick4 wrote: post #38
chimeracoder wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Combinations of frequencies that form simple integer ratios are naturally perceived as being consonant, no culture or upbringing needed. As the ratios begin to involve higher integers and become more complex, the intervals they produce are considered more dissonant. This is only true for a definition of "consonant" and "dissonant" that is literally tautological. Yes, one can distinguish between consonant and disson…

I'm curious, which musical traditions favor music built on scales from dissonant intervals? Do you mean music which is more percussion oriented?

Balinese gamelan is played on metal instruments which don't have the same concept of consonance and whose overtones and scales have almost no relationship with Western music.

Some eastern european folk uses minor-like scales but harmonies feature a major second, which is certainly not considered a consonant interval.

In the West there's also jazz, which is based rather loosely on conventional Western harmony but uses unusually remote and dissonant chords.

And the entire serial and post-classical academic tradition, which is self-consciously and deliberately anti-tonal and dissonant.

In fact extremely consonant music is the exception.

Re: We know music is pleasurable, the question is why?

#57

Post by scrollaway »

0xdeadbeefbabe wrote: post #55
lqet wrote: post #2

Related: recent studies have shown that there are people with "musical anhedonia", and that this condition may affect 3 to 5% of the world population [1]. These people "get" music, meaning that they can learn to sing or play an instrument, remember and recognize melodies etc., but they are completely unable to receive any pleasure from it. As someone who gets a significant amount of his daily joy from listening to mu…

There are also people who can't concentrate while listening to music.

Neither can I but that's because I get very easily overwhelmed by music.

Re: We know music is pleasurable, the question is why?

#59

Post by tvanantwerp »

lqet wrote: post #2

Related: recent studies have shown that there are people with "musical anhedonia", and that this condition may affect 3 to 5% of the world population [1]. These people "get" music, meaning that they can learn to sing or play an instrument, remember and recognize melodies etc., but they are completely unable to receive any pleasure from it. As someone who gets a significant amount of his daily joy from listening to mu…

I think I enjoy music, but I've never seemed as interested in it as other people are. I usually find a few things that match a mood and listen to it on repeat. I never listen to music just for fun, and effectively never go to concerts.

Re: We know music is pleasurable, the question is why?

#60

Post by irrational »

lqet wrote: post #2

Related: recent studies have shown that there are people with "musical anhedonia", and that this condition may affect 3 to 5% of the world population [1]. These people "get" music, meaning that they can learn to sing or play an instrument, remember and recognize melodies etc., but they are completely unable to receive any pleasure from it. As someone who gets a significant amount of his daily joy from listening to mu…

Finally, I have a name for it! If all of music simply disappeared right this second and there was never again a melody, song, etc. forever more, I wouldn't miss it for one second. I understand music evokes something in other people, I just don't understand why or how or what that "enjoyment" consists of. It does absolutely nothing for me. I've tried just about every genre of music that I've been aware of, but it's all just noise.
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