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Who Were the Mamluks?

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61–70 of 121 posts

Re: Who Were the Mamluks?

#61
post #16

If you're interested in this kind of history stuff, I recommend reading The Silk Roads , by Peter Frankopan. It's a recent (2015) epic-scope history book, from the beginning of written history to the present day, based on the idea that the Middle East, rather than Europe, is the true center of civilization - that the area stretching from the eastern Mediterranean to western India has been foremost, and remains foremo…

FWIW I'd recommend "The Inheritance of Rome" by Christopher Wickham. It is jumps around a lot but gives a lot of really in-depth analysis of the Eastern Roman Empire and the rise of the Caliphate.

It's doesn't look like you may expect.

Re: Who Were the Mamluks?

#62
post #60
post #8

Tying things back to today: A Mameluke Sword is what you see US Marine Corps. officers carry on specific formal occasions (or in recruiting commercials!): "Marine Corps history states that a sword of this type was presented to Marine First Lieutenant Presley O'Bannon by the Ottoman Empire viceroy, Prince Hamet, on December 8, 1805, during the First Barbary War, in Libya, as a gesture of respect and praise for the Mar…

what's exactly the distinction between swords and sabres in English? In my native language we'd call this a sabre (sablja), as word sword (mač) is used only for straight double-edged blades.

A saber is a type of sword. It’s pretty heavy and was meant for use on horseback (i.e. cavalry).

Re: Who Were the Mamluks?

#63
post #16

If you're interested in this kind of history stuff, I recommend reading The Silk Roads , by Peter Frankopan. It's a recent (2015) epic-scope history book, from the beginning of written history to the present day, based on the idea that the Middle East, rather than Europe, is the true center of civilization - that the area stretching from the eastern Mediterranean to western India has been foremost, and remains foremo…

FWIW I'd recommend "The Inheritance of Rome" by Christopher Wickham. It is jumps around a lot but gives a lot of really in-depth analysis of the Eastern Roman Empire and the rise of the Caliphate. It's doesn't look like you may expect.

I'll add it to the list, thanks!

Re: Who Were the Mamluks?

#65
post #33
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those games have taught me so much about history and geography. On a game map you have to fill in every bit of territory with whatever state was there at the time, not just ignore it the way the history you're taught in school can.

Games like EU4 often make me think about the role that video games have in education. It seems as though all educational games are created with a primary goal of "education" and a secondary goal of "fun game". The result is always an unfun game. What if the ordering were reversed? Create a fun game, then try to tack on some educational elements after the fact. Perhaps some games like this already exist. I'm sure you…

This reminds of me "Typing of the Dead". It's like the arcade shooter House of the Dead, but instead of a light gun, you use your keyboard and shoot zombies by typing words to kill them. Pretty fun way to work on typing speed.

Re: Who Were the Mamluks?

#66
post #55
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> filling the vacuum caused by the collapse of the Roman empire What about the "other" Roman empire, the Byzantines? They seemed to have filled the vacuum even better.

The Byzantines were an eastern empire, not a western one - more aligned with the Orient than with Europe. That said, pretty much the moment Islam appeared, they ripped Egypt and the Levant out of Byzantine hands - reducing the "Byzantine empire" from "empire" to "regional kingdom that will eventually get sacked". Less than a century after Islam started, they were laying siege to Constantinople. Over the next couple o…

The Byzantines were as aligned with the "Orient" as Alexander was. They held onto territory in Italy until a full 600 years after the West fell (once Belisarius recaptured it in the 600s). They had active diplomacy with the Holy Roman Empire and other states in the West up until the 4th Crusade, basically.

You've completely glossed over the Renaissance of the empire around 1000 AD (550 years after the West fell) under John Tzimiskes, Basil II, etc. You can blame this on the decline of Abbasid power if you want, but even if the caliphate _technically_ held territory in Syria/Lebanon, there was no question as to military superiority. The Byzantines raided with impunity and got tribute from the local emirs.

Constantinople lost 90% of its population after the plague of Justinian, and a recurring series of outbreaks over the next centuries, plus a loss of manpower after the desperate end of the Sassanian wars under Heraclius (which Heraclius technically won, but both empires were so diminished that they were easy prey for the new caliphate). It rebounded. Never to its maximum, but it was back near 750000 under the Macedonians.

So, the empire was ok until 660, lost territory, rebounded in the 10th century, and was arguably at its best organizationally and culturally until the real decline started during Manzikert.

It lasted 1000 years. Please read something other than Gibbon, or at least listen to The History of Byzantium (which follows on where The History of Rome left off). History is not a static field, and the Byzantines are rapidly becoming rehabilitated as more documents come up.

Re: Who Were the Mamluks?

#67
post #55
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> filling the vacuum caused by the collapse of the Roman empire What about the "other" Roman empire, the Byzantines? They seemed to have filled the vacuum even better.

The Byzantines were an eastern empire, not a western one - more aligned with the Orient than with Europe. That said, pretty much the moment Islam appeared, they ripped Egypt and the Levant out of Byzantine hands - reducing the "Byzantine empire" from "empire" to "regional kingdom that will eventually get sacked". Less than a century after Islam started, they were laying siege to Constantinople. Over the next couple o…

> the Islamic empire lasted for north of 13 centuries

I mean if you count the Ottomans, Abbassids, Fatimids, Seljuks, Umayyads, and Rashiduns as one single entity, sure. By that measure you'd also have to consider the Romans and Byzantines (and maybe even the HRE) to be a single contiguous entity as well.

Re: Who Were the Mamluks?

#68
post #59
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, this is history from a western/anglo-centric perspective. The eastern empire simply doesn't exist after 1054.

The eastern empire lost most of its territory by 800, reducing it to a dying regional power. But yeah, totally a European perspective. Aside from the Romans, "Europe" barely comes into play in history, until Spain reached America and started bringing back enormous piles of gold.

The Byzantines controlled all of Anatolia, the Balkans, and parts of Italy around 1000 and retained much of it through the Komnenian Restoration. I wouldn't call the empire "dying" until after 1204. And remember, even at it's lowest Constantinople itself was regarded extremely highly -- most famously the Rus adopted Eastern Orthodoxy after being so impressed by the city.

Re: Who Were the Mamluks?

#69
post #55
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> filling the vacuum caused by the collapse of the Roman empire What about the "other" Roman empire, the Byzantines? They seemed to have filled the vacuum even better.

The Byzantines were an eastern empire, not a western one - more aligned with the Orient than with Europe. That said, pretty much the moment Islam appeared, they ripped Egypt and the Levant out of Byzantine hands - reducing the "Byzantine empire" from "empire" to "regional kingdom that will eventually get sacked". Less than a century after Islam started, they were laying siege to Constantinople. Over the next couple o…

>devoted to advancing technology, peace, trade, and preservation of the writings of earlier civilization >peace

>Less than a century after Islam started, they were laying siege to Constantinople.

Pick one.

Re: Who Were the Mamluks?

#70
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Byzantines were an eastern empire, not a western one - more aligned with the Orient than with Europe. That said, pretty much the moment Islam appeared, they ripped Egypt and the Levant out of Byzantine hands - reducing the "Byzantine empire" from "empire" to "regional kingdom that will eventually get sacked". Less than a century after Islam started, they were laying siege to Constantinople. Over the next couple o…

>devoted to advancing technology, peace, trade, and preservation of the writings of earlier civilization >peace >Less than a century after Islam started, they were laying siege to Constantinople. Pick one.

Pretty sure this isn't 4chan.

Don't conflate manifest destiny/religious destiny and culture. The caliphate(s) eventually gave up on sieging Constantinople after the utter failure of 717. But before that, they were essentially a collection of tribes which rapidly expanded, and whose opponents fell so quickly they felt they were destined to bring Islam to the entire world, with Constantinople as a prophecied conquest.

This is less than 100 years after the Rashidun caliphate sprang into existence, and the Islamic Golden Age lasted for centuries after that.

Beyond which, you should not assume that they were not peaceful just because they conquered their neighbors. The laws of the caliphate(s) were extraordinarily generous to believers of other religions, and the caliphate was internally peaceful, enforced charity, successful as a gateway for trade between the East and West, and, yes, actively preserved/translated the writings of previous civilizations until ~1100

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