Who Were the Mamluks? • Hacker News Board

Re: Who Were the Mamluks?

#31

Post by notfromhere » Thu, Sep 06, 2018, 3:53 PM UTC

beat wrote: post #18

beat wrote: post #16

If you're interested in this kind of history stuff, I recommend reading The Silk Roads , by Peter Frankopan. It's a recent (2015) epic-scope history book, from the beginning of written history to the present day, based on the idea that the Middle East, rather than Europe, is the true center of civilization - that the area stretching from the eastern Mediterranean to western India has been foremost, and remains foremo…

One interesting thing that comes from the book is realizing just how tremendously important the early Islamic expansion and empire was, filling the vacuum caused by the collapse of the Roman empire with a new culture, devoted to advancing technology, peace, trade, and preservation of the writings of earlier civilizations. Without them, we might have lost most of the writing of ancient Greece.

who do you think caused the collapse of the Eastern Romans?

Re: Who Were the Mamluks?

#32

Post by mustaflex » Thu, Sep 06, 2018, 3:56 PM UTC

Symmetry wrote: post #15

hmd_imputer wrote: post #11

"the Mamluks were not native to Egypt but were always slave soldiers, mainly Qipchak Turks from Central Asia." - if two Turks come together, they would establish an empire.

I seem to recall that because the Mamluks were mostly Turkic their country was called "The home of the Turks" or essentially "Turkey" for a while.

if I remember correctly one of the first of the Mamluk kings was named "bay pars" meaning rich leopard in turkish.

Re: Who Were the Mamluks?

#33

Post by sgslo » Thu, Sep 06, 2018, 4:04 PM UTC

Symmetry wrote: post #5

catacombs wrote: post #4

They were those bastards who nearly dominated the Ottoman Empire and all of the western Mediterranean region in my recent EU4 game. They listed me as a rival for nearly 200 years without ever waging war, which, in hindsight, was a blessing.

Those games have taught me so much about history and geography. On a game map you have to fill in every bit of territory with whatever state was there at the time, not just ignore it the way the history you're taught in school can.

Games like EU4 often make me think about the role that video games have in education.

It seems as though all educational games are created with a primary goal of "education" and a secondary goal of "fun game". The result is always an unfun game. What if the ordering were reversed? Create a fun game, then try to tack on some educational elements after the fact.

Perhaps some games like this already exist. I'm sure you could make a claim that Minecraft is a fun game that also teaches resource management and spatial awareness.

Re: Who Were the Mamluks?

#34

Post by robdachshund » Thu, Sep 06, 2018, 4:06 PM UTC

beat wrote: post #18

beat wrote: post #16

If you're interested in this kind of history stuff, I recommend reading The Silk Roads , by Peter Frankopan. It's a recent (2015) epic-scope history book, from the beginning of written history to the present day, based on the idea that the Middle East, rather than Europe, is the true center of civilization - that the area stretching from the eastern Mediterranean to western India has been foremost, and remains foremo…

One interesting thing that comes from the book is realizing just how tremendously important the early Islamic expansion and empire was, filling the vacuum caused by the collapse of the Roman empire with a new culture, devoted to advancing technology, peace, trade, and preservation of the writings of earlier civilizations. Without them, we might have lost most of the writing of ancient Greece.

Uh pretty sure the Holy Roman Empire filled that vacuum by uniting Europe under Catholicism.

Re: Who Were the Mamluks?

#35

Post by hikarudo » Thu, Sep 06, 2018, 4:08 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #29

beat wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One interesting thing that comes from the book is realizing just how tremendously important the early Islamic expansion and empire was, filling the vacuum caused by the collapse of the Roman empire with a new culture, devoted to advancing technology, peace, trade, and preservation of the writings of earlier civilizations. Without them, we might have lost most of the writing of ancient Greece.

I question the "devoted to peace" part. They were devoted to expanding Islam by force, and peace after they had conquered you. I once saw a comparison of the battles fought against Islam in the Crusades, and the battles fought by Islam in expanding. Islam fought maybe ten times more battles to expand than the Crusades fought against Islam. (And much of the Islamic expansion was against civilizations that were already…

About the comparison, I think it might be this video:

Bill Warner, PhD: Jihad vs Crusades https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_To-cV94Bo

Re: Who Were the Mamluks?

#36

Post by mystikal83 » Thu, Sep 06, 2018, 4:09 PM UTC

beat wrote: post #16

If you're interested in this kind of history stuff, I recommend reading The Silk Roads , by Peter Frankopan. It's a recent (2015) epic-scope history book, from the beginning of written history to the present day, based on the idea that the Middle East, rather than Europe, is the true center of civilization - that the area stretching from the eastern Mediterranean to western India has been foremost, and remains foremo…

A good review of this book

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/sep/29/silk-roads-pet...

Re: Who Were the Mamluks?

#37

Post by nindalf » Thu, Sep 06, 2018, 4:10 PM UTC

notfromhere wrote: post #31

beat wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One interesting thing that comes from the book is realizing just how tremendously important the early Islamic expansion and empire was, filling the vacuum caused by the collapse of the Roman empire with a new culture, devoted to advancing technology, peace, trade, and preservation of the writings of earlier civilizations. Without them, we might have lost most of the writing of ancient Greece.

who do you think caused the collapse of the Eastern Romans?

Doesn't really make sense to "blame" the Islamic tribes/kingdoms for the fall of the Roman Empire. Perhaps some other power would have done the same.

Hard to play historical what-ifs, but let me try. By the end of the 13th Century, almost all Crusader holdings had been taken over by the Sultan of Egypt Baibars. He used his consolidated power to defeat the Mongol horde at the Battle of Ain Jalut in 1260, the first time a Mongol army had been defeated.

It's possible that if there had been no Islamic power at the time, either the Golden Horde or the Ilkhanate would have eventually swept the Eastern Roman Empire away. Or maybe not. Who knows?

Re: Who Were the Mamluks?

#38

Post by puranjay » Thu, Sep 06, 2018, 4:12 PM UTC

Every time I read something like this, I'm reminded of how much I know my grounding in history to Age of Empires 2.

Sure, it got a lot of things wrong and it took liberty with a lot of historical facts, but it also gave me a basis for, and appreciation of history.

I knew about the Mamluks because they were an elite unit in the game, and I happened to one day just Google their name and read the wiki page.

Re: Who Were the Mamluks?

#39

Post by halflings » Thu, Sep 06, 2018, 4:15 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #29

beat wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One interesting thing that comes from the book is realizing just how tremendously important the early Islamic expansion and empire was, filling the vacuum caused by the collapse of the Roman empire with a new culture, devoted to advancing technology, peace, trade, and preservation of the writings of earlier civilizations. Without them, we might have lost most of the writing of ancient Greece.

I question the "devoted to peace" part. They were devoted to expanding Islam by force, and peace after they had conquered you. I once saw a comparison of the battles fought against Islam in the Crusades, and the battles fought by Islam in expanding. Islam fought maybe ten times more battles to expand than the Crusades fought against Islam. (And much of the Islamic expansion was against civilizations that were already…

North Africa was christian? The amazigh were animists, and Islam was present before any large scale invasion, and was mostly spread by amazigh tribes themselves. (at least in the case of Morocco)

Re: Who Were the Mamluks?

#40

Post by notfromhere » Thu, Sep 06, 2018, 4:24 PM UTC

nindalf wrote: post #37

notfromhere wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

who do you think caused the collapse of the Eastern Romans?

Doesn't really make sense to "blame" the Islamic tribes/kingdoms for the fall of the Roman Empire. Perhaps some other power would have done the same. Hard to play historical what-ifs, but let me try. By the end of the 13th Century, almost all Crusader holdings had been taken over by the Sultan of Egypt Baibars. He used his consolidated power to defeat the Mongol horde at the Battle of Ain Jalut in 1260, the first tim…

The islamic kingdoms actively fought wars against the byzantines and absorbed most of their territories into their own. So you literally can