India court legalises gay sex in landmark ruling • Hacker News Board

Re: India court legalises gay sex in landmark ruling

#131

Post by foldr » Thu, Sep 06, 2018, 1:05 PM UTC

sonnyblarney wrote: post #123

tallanvor wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Homosexuality is generally only disturbing to people who have been taught that it's supposed to be disturbing. Just looking at same-sex marriage allows you to clearly see correlations in approval of same-sex marriage based on religious beliefs: http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/views-abou... Beyond the differences between a number of the religions, You can look at the results for "Sources of guidance…

"Homosexuality is generally only disturbing to people who have been taught that it's supposed to be disturbing." I believe it's much deeper than that, it's evolutionary. Some codified 'teachings' i.e. religious or otherwise may push our instincts in one way or another. FYI there would have been ancient religions very much in favour of 'same sex' though probably not same sex marriage. I suggest that a little more than…

Just about every objectionable 'ism' and 'ary' has been given an alleged evolutionary justification at some point since the publication of The Origin of Species.

Could you possibly refrain from speculating along these lines unless you have actual evidence that there is an evolutionary basis for laws that criminalize gay sex?

Because otherwise, even if this isn't your intention, you're giving people who favor this kind of legislation the support of sciency-sounding justifications which some people could easily mistake for actual science.

Re: India court legalises gay sex in landmark ruling

#132

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 06, 2018, 1:13 PM UTC

jlawson wrote: post #94

wallace_f wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world is so weird. I never understood the motive behind tyrannizing other people. How is that winning at anything other than being an asshole? Why don't people just leave other people alone? Is it so much different to tyrannize a woman for being feminine, or just being attractive? Most of us are instinctively disgusted by that--or at least claim to be?

I think it is worth looking for the rational (that is to say, non-moralistic) cause. The fact the gays are pressured to act straight across in nearly every society in such similar and intense ways indicates that there's likely a common cause. e.g. If one culture hates dogs and kills them on sight, you might say that culture has a prejudice against dogs. If 95% of cultures hated dogs and killed them on sight, you shou…

[deleted]

Re: India court legalises gay sex in landmark ruling

#133

Post by tallanvor » Thu, Sep 06, 2018, 1:14 PM UTC

sonnyblarney wrote: post #123

tallanvor wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Homosexuality is generally only disturbing to people who have been taught that it's supposed to be disturbing. Just looking at same-sex marriage allows you to clearly see correlations in approval of same-sex marriage based on religious beliefs: http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/views-abou... Beyond the differences between a number of the religions, You can look at the results for "Sources of guidance…

"Homosexuality is generally only disturbing to people who have been taught that it's supposed to be disturbing." I believe it's much deeper than that, it's evolutionary. Some codified 'teachings' i.e. religious or otherwise may push our instincts in one way or another. FYI there would have been ancient religions very much in favour of 'same sex' though probably not same sex marriage. I suggest that a little more than…

You have not provided a single piece of evidence that supports your theory, rather you are doubling down on what you "believe" as opposed to what research and polling shows.

Re: India court legalises gay sex in landmark ruling

#134

Post by vijaybritto » Thu, Sep 06, 2018, 1:20 PM UTC

Ensorceled wrote: post #115

vijaybritto wrote: post #51

Irony is that a British news outlet is posting about it when they were the ones who introduced that law in India before 157 years!! Anyway, a great step in the right direction!

How is that ironic? ALL of the Brits who introduced that law are dead, they aren't running news outlets.

I'm talking about the kingdom not the individuals. If Trump does something bad, for the rest of the world it's just the USA and not just Trump or his party. So here it's the kingdom which made it illegal is talking with a moral high ground now. That looks ironical to me! Thats all man!

Re: India court legalises gay sex in landmark ruling

#135

Post by sudhirj » Thu, Sep 06, 2018, 1:30 PM UTC

foldr wrote: post #131

sonnyblarney wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Homosexuality is generally only disturbing to people who have been taught that it's supposed to be disturbing." I believe it's much deeper than that, it's evolutionary. Some codified 'teachings' i.e. religious or otherwise may push our instincts in one way or another. FYI there would have been ancient religions very much in favour of 'same sex' though probably not same sex marriage. I suggest that a little more than…

Just about every objectionable 'ism' and 'ary' has been given an alleged evolutionary justification at some point since the publication of The Origin of Species . Could you possibly refrain from speculating along these lines unless you have actual evidence that there is an evolutionary basis for laws that criminalize gay sex? Because otherwise, even if this isn't your intention, you're giving people who favor this ki…

I think the appeal to evolution helps more than it harms, because it serves to point out the feelings against homosexuality can be classified as a reaction to anything that used to hamper your ability to reproduce, like a lack of physical strength, hunting skills, slow running speed, lower environment sensitivity, etc.

If a society has moved beyond the ‘natural’ impulse to shun members with some evolutionary disadvantages, it must consider that it cannot shun members with any of them.

Homosexuality is always a subconscious threat, because until recently if you were homosexual your bloodline died with you. If your child was homosexual that’s one possible family tree gone, and if it was an only child that’s your bloodline gone again. So if feels like there’s always going to be some opposition as long it’s still connected to reproduction.

Re: India court legalises gay sex in landmark ruling

#136

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 06, 2018, 1:31 PM UTC

vivan wrote: post #22

Something to note here is that it is not just gay sex that is legalised - the prohibition was on "carnal intercourse against the order of nature" which included straight anal sex as well as oral sex. Of course, these are less important as this was never enforced, but weird to think that these things were technically illegal.

[deleted]

Re: India court legalises gay sex in landmark ruling

#137

Post by Kye » Thu, Sep 06, 2018, 1:33 PM UTC

vinni2 wrote: post #35

As a gay Indian this is a great news! but it is one thing to decriminalize it legally and complete different thing for societal acceptance and leading a normal life as gay person in India. For an average gay person in India this doesn’t change much. There is still a long way to go. This law was never a problem for me but my family and relative and neighbors are. But it is a good progress.

It's taken about 15 years since legalization in the US for people to start being more accepting. Maybe it'll go faster in India.

Re: India court legalises gay sex in landmark ruling

#138

Post by foldr » Thu, Sep 06, 2018, 1:33 PM UTC

sudhirj wrote: post #135

foldr wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just about every objectionable 'ism' and 'ary' has been given an alleged evolutionary justification at some point since the publication of The Origin of Species . Could you possibly refrain from speculating along these lines unless you have actual evidence that there is an evolutionary basis for laws that criminalize gay sex? Because otherwise, even if this isn't your intention, you're giving people who favor this ki…

I think the appeal to evolution helps more than it harms, because it serves to point out the feelings against homosexuality can be classified as a reaction to anything that used to hamper your ability to reproduce, like a lack of physical strength, hunting skills, slow running speed, lower environment sensitivity, etc. If a society has moved beyond the ‘natural’ impulse to shun members with some evolutionary disadvan…

>I think the appeal to evolution helps more than it harms, because it serves to point out the feelings against homosexuality can be classified as a reaction to anything that used to hamper your ability to reproduce, like a lack of physical strength, hunting skills, slow running speed, lower environment sensitivity, etc.

It could be classified this way if there's scientific evidence to support that hypothesis. But throwing it out there as a speculation isn't helpful.

>like a lack of physical strength

Surely this shows how silly the argument is. Where are the cultures that criminalize having a lack of physical strength?

>Homosexuality is always a subconscious threat, because until recently if you were homosexual your bloodline died with you

No, because there's only a rough connection between sexuality and who you actually have sex with. Being gay doesn't stop you having sex with women, and you don't have to have sex many times in order to reproduce.

Re: India court legalises gay sex in landmark ruling

#139

Post by throwaway6789 » Thu, Sep 06, 2018, 1:35 PM UTC

shubhamjain wrote: post #28

Remarkable decision. Although, this is just a small step of a long road to a culture that understands and accepts the LGBT community, a step nonetheless. It's very fortunate that the democratic structure of India allows courts to make rational, liberal decisions. They are not encumbered by petty politics or vote banks. Living in India is not easy. Every other day you have a reason to astonish over the regressiveness…

Are gays getting a bad reputation in India just because of being gay?

>I think homosexuality gets a bad rep in Kerala because of all those nasty ammavans (uncles) not-so-subtly molesting young boys at the back of buses and movie theatres.

Some reddit users share their experience:

https://old.reddit.com/r/Kerala/comments/9dfskv/sc_decrimina...

Re: India court legalises gay sex in landmark ruling

#140

Post by voltooid » Thu, Sep 06, 2018, 1:41 PM UTC

sgift wrote: post #82

voltooid wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is more history to this. The introduction of the law relating to making gay sex illegal "... dating back to 1861, (that was) introduced during the British rule of India (modelled on the Buggery Act of 1533) criminalised sexual activities "against the order of nature", including homosexual activities" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_377_of_the_Indian_Pena... It is the truth for a lot of countries that were…

> Colonial powers left their mark behind in so many unfortunate ways that are just too complex for countries to deal with even today. What does that even mean? They are free countries. No one forced India to hold onto that law. No one forces other countries to hold onto colonial era laws. If they don't change it that's their choice, their decision and their problem in the end. Not that of some long gone boogeyman.

>> Not that of some long gone boogeyman.

Since the boogeyman has been "gone", the entire region (not just India) has gone through several wars, a very messy, violent and tumultuous process of nation building. The region is not even used to existing as one nation yet. It takes time. Not making excuses for slow progress. Just trying to make the point that there isn't a magic wand to make everything all nice and shiny. It takes time. And as we see from this supreme court ruling, the intention is good and it is there.