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How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

nationalgeographic.com

131–140 of 256 posts

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#131
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's much deeper than "individualist streak in American culture". Western Europe in the last 1000 years or so has been a very unusual place... one aspect of which is having nuclear families not extended ones. Because (crudely speaking) the catholic church wished to diminish alternative power structures, such as clans. This led to an unusually open society, which had many benefits... with generally higher leve…

> Because (crudely speaking) the catholic church wished to diminish alternative power structures, such as clans. This led to an unusually open society, which had many benefits... with generally higher levels of trust among strangers. Oh please... Indian Catholic families still act in extended structures. I mean, three of my uncles are priests and one is a bishop. We've been Christian for thousands of years. We're sti…

> "We've been Christian for thousands of years."

LOL

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#132
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are several things wrong with this line of thinking (as others have pointed out), but I'd like to draw attention to a less salient point you made: > This led to an unusually open society, which had many benefits... with generally higher levels of trust among strangers. It's interesting that you're portraying the openness of European society in a strongly positive light, given the high levels of abject lonelines…

Well this is fun, see other answers. I agree that the extreme individualist end of the spectrum has downsides, for sure. Suicide rates make horrifying reading. But I think you can argue it's part of what made the west successful -- in HN terms, being forced to learn to deal with strangers, a lot, set you up to scale well. Isn't the flip side of being on the other end of this scale -- tight happy families, or clans, m…

This is true. Since the article talks about Patels. Back in India after holding powerful position in politics, administration etc for long time in Gujarat, Patels are lately agitating violently to be declared "backward caste". So that they can be entitled for more government support in jobs, education etc.

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#133
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not (just) that most Americans feel these jobs aren't worth their time. There is a very strong individualist streak in American culture and a very strong taboo against lending friends or family members money for any reason. There are plenty of American families who have relations who could easily help bootstrap a profitable small business in the way described here. It just doesn't happen that way very often. Ins…

> There is a very strong individualist streak in American culture and a very strong taboo against lending friends or family members money I think the individualist streak in American culture is better shown by people being unwilling to seek help from friends/family. I might call an unwillingness to help others (assuming one can afford to do so) selfishness -- not individualism. But what I have seen in American is, as…

> There's talk elsewhere in this article's comments here about the "killer feature" that these Indian Americans have. I would argue that the true killer feature is not even access to zero-interest capital. It's a culture that actively fights against pride and individualism.

I think the true killer app is family cooperation as a unit in conjunction with a deep network of relatives. My father built his business with the help of his parents, his aunt, and two other cousins who lent him money. Without their help, he couldn't have built the business as fast and as big as he did. His brother also worked for him a bit as well as some of the cousins when he was building his first shop. My mother helped him and once she had me and my brother stayed at home and took care fo the home front even though she had a masters degree. And it appears his generation along with my mothers was the last hurrah of big family ties and help as everyone in my generation up and left. I have no cousins, uncles or aunts who are close. They all did their own thing, went to school and moved away. I see them from time to time, maybe once or twice a year and that's it. Hell, even my mother has all sorts of stories about how here massive Irish family (grandma was one of 12 kids) pulled together to help each other with everything.

Contrast that with my Guyanese friend who has a seemingly never ending supply of helpful family members all in the same neighborhood. His father built himself a small real estate empire of about a dozen rental properties and most of his generation are college educated. His father started out doing handyman and light construction work with his brothers. They all chipped in and worked. Some even had a day job and came to the properties at night to work on them. One by one they fixed and flipped homes using money and labor they pooled together. Then they started buying, fixing and renting. They acted as a small family army, cooperatively building each others future.

The American family has been here long enough to thin and die whereas these foreign families are still "fresh" to America and working hard to make a good life. But they too will one day suffer the same fate. Subsequent generations won't have to work as hard as they are already comfortable. Little by little they will spread out, move away, and their once mighty army is no more. From my perspective as a true 3rd gen American (all G-Grandparents came from Europe around the same time) is that by the third generation, there are no more cultural roots. And family is culture so family dissolves as well. My mother and father were the last to really care and my father was very meh about his Polish heritage. My mother was adamant, keeping traditions alive for as long as possible but the local family thinned out as the rest moved away. She is probably the last to really care about family and cultural roots which bound the early immigrants, and their children.

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because (crudely speaking) the catholic church wished to diminish alternative power structures, such as clans. This led to an unusually open society, which had many benefits... with generally higher levels of trust among strangers. Oh please... Indian Catholic families still act in extended structures. I mean, three of my uncles are priests and one is a bishop. We've been Christian for thousands of years. We're sti…

> "We've been Christian for thousands of years." LOL

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Thomas_Christians

Yeah, LOL...

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#137

The story totally checks out. I moved from Boston to San Francisco in 2006, did a cross country drive. Back then we only had flip phone, so I would use my laptop and The Microsoft Streets software with a GPS. Every day, around 3 PM, I would pull in into the parking lot and locate a Motel 30 or 40 miles ahead using the GPS and Streets software, and call and book a room. 8 out of 11 motels I stayed in were owned and ru…

My last ex was Gujarati and her father owned a Holiday Inn Express and a Days Inn. We both worked remote at the time and a good chunk of our relationship was spent staying at various hotels under the IHG banner for the "owner's rate" (a small denomination less than $1).

Their network went well beyond any particular industry though. The first family friend to come to this country ended up in Houston in the early 70s, quickly accumulated wealth by innovating accounting techniques for big oil. He sponsored the next wave, which included her father who started as a nuclear plant engineer and travelled around the country for a couple decades before moving into finance then hospitality.

Each successive wave would sponsor others - they all were relatively successful in India but came here to be executives at tech companies, surgeons, professors, real estate investors, etc. They really took care of each other.

While the family did much of what was mentioned in the article, including living at the Days Inn for a couple years at one point, it didn't mention anything about partnership stakes in these properties. That seemed to be a big thing, or at least I had the impression that diversifying property portfolios was common. Her father owned his properties outright but that was because he bought his partners out during the financial collapse in 2009. When we last talked 2 years back, he was looking to acquire new partners and invest in other properties.

As you say, there was a tension to bring the children in but they had little interest in moving to a place in a so-so part of Florida - the children were well educated, travelled, cultured etc and preferred to live in big cities. My ex and I did grudgingly discuss it as being an option if we started a family.

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#139
post #28

This model has led to success for other immigrant groups in other industries. > Many followed his advice. “They would give each other handshake loans—no collateral, no payment schedule, just pay when you can,” Doshi explains. Once a family purchased a motel, they would live there, and the family members would do all the tasks needed to run it, from cleaning rooms to checking in guests. That helped keep costs down, an…

It's not (just) that most Americans feel these jobs aren't worth their time. There is a very strong individualist streak in American culture and a very strong taboo against lending friends or family members money for any reason. There are plenty of American families who have relations who could easily help bootstrap a profitable small business in the way described here. It just doesn't happen that way very often. Ins…

Americans want less risk, and fiscal policy drives consolidation.

Hotels aren’t a Business that requires immigrant labor because it’s undesirable —- it’s a business that needs capital and SMB are starved of capital.

Many Americans come from a cultural background where there is shame involved in talking about money and doing business with family, and prefer dealing with institutions.

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#140
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe Gates started Microsoft with a $5000 loan from his parents. Not that "immense".

$23,420.63 in todays dollars. [ http://www.in2013dollars.com/1975-dollars-in-2018?amount=500... ]

I.e. the price of a modest new car. Hardly "immense".
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