How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels • Hacker News Board

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#91

Post by tathougies » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 8:46 PM UTC

iguy wrote: post #45

sumeetjain wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a very strong individualist streak in American culture and a very strong taboo against lending friends or family members money I think the individualist streak in American culture is better shown by people being unwilling to seek help from friends/family. I might call an unwillingness to help others (assuming one can afford to do so) selfishness -- not individualism. But what I have seen in American is, as…

I think it's much deeper than "individualist streak in American culture". Western Europe in the last 1000 years or so has been a very unusual place... one aspect of which is having nuclear families not extended ones. Because (crudely speaking) the catholic church wished to diminish alternative power structures, such as clans. This led to an unusually open society, which had many benefits... with generally higher leve…

> Because (crudely speaking) the catholic church wished to diminish alternative power structures, such as clans. This led to an unusually open society, which had many benefits... with generally higher levels of trust among strangers.

Oh please... Indian Catholic families still act in extended structures. I mean, three of my uncles are priests and one is a bishop. We've been Christian for thousands of years. We're still part of an overbearing, very close, very extended Indian family.

The ruining of European culture can be traced solely back to issues in European culture. Let's stop blaming the church for things that Europe brought upon itself.

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#92

Post by amyjess » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 8:47 PM UTC

I find this interesting, because my family used to take road trips all the time (annually in the '90s, less often since then), and we mostly stayed in motels that were part of national chains like Hampton Inn, La Quinta, Holiday Inn Express, Fairfield by Marriott, Best Western, etc., and I honestly don't recall the staff being Indian (since we mostly travelled through the Southeast, most of the employees we interacted with were black). I guess the owners could have been, but that would mean they're hiring people outside of family.

I'm wondering if this article applies to just independent motels or if it also includes franchises of the national chains (at least, I assume the national chains use a franchise model). I'd be honestly surprised if independent motels were a full half of the number of motels in the US, since the chains are everywhere.

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#93

Post by tathougies » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 8:48 PM UTC

techstrategist wrote: post #63

iguy wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's much deeper than "individualist streak in American culture". Western Europe in the last 1000 years or so has been a very unusual place... one aspect of which is having nuclear families not extended ones. Because (crudely speaking) the catholic church wished to diminish alternative power structures, such as clans. This led to an unusually open society, which had many benefits... with generally higher leve…

I never connected the decline of extended families to the church, but that sounds fascinating. Any recommended reading?

It's because it's not. Literally all the cultures in which Catholicism thrives are those in which the extended family is paramount. My very large very Catholic very Indian family actively rails against the individualism of secular American culture. As do my Philipino friends who also have very close families. As do my Hispanic family and friends who also have very close families. As do my African friends who also have close extended families.

Literally the biggest group embracing individualism from my perspective are secular white people and mainstream protestants.

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#94

Post by jessaustin » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 8:48 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #48

emodendroket wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've wondered about this, but what I've heard is that few Indian families eat out very often.

Indian food is labor intensive and uses expensive ingredients. Restaurants are also low margin businesses that don't scale well and are super risky, not something I'd advise someone to do unless they have a passion for it and ability to fail and carry on with life. I have not been to a single Indian restaurant that can compare to a home cooked Gujarati meal, especially made by someone who grew up there.

I'd be thrilled if there were some restaurants that passed a much lower bar than that. I don't agree about expensive ingredients. Lots of restaurants (not all!) have figured out how to serve non-spoiled vegetables. When I lived in Singapore I lived near (and patronized regularly) a bunch of Indian restaurants that did that without refrigeration (at 1° N latitude).

The labor costs are an issue. I cooked a curry with garden vegetables and Gulf shrimp over the weekend, and it took over an hour (perhaps it would have been unpalatable to a real Indian person, but three hillbillies from the Ozarks liked it just fine). However, it's possible to purchase e.g. frozen okra that's already sorted and chopped.

But yeah restaurants are difficult. Way too much competition in that space unless you really like running a restaurant. Chinese-Americans seem to have had some success, however.

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#95

Post by amyjess » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 8:50 PM UTC

nyolfen wrote: post #88

sandworm101 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it safe to say they mean "Indian American" in a racial rather than national context, akin to "African American". So I'd take it to include people who have ethnic ties to the entire Indian subcontinent, including Pakistan and Bangladesh. As a Canadian who has lived many years in the US, the casual use of racial descriptors still shocks me. I find is very discomforting to be asked my race on forms, to see natio…

indians were categorized as white for govt purposes in the US until the late 70s when they petitioned the government for a census category so they could benefit from affirmative action. same deal as the new MENA category

Indians don't have their own census category now, either. They're officially considered Asian; the census lumps them in with East Asians and Southeast Asians.

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#96

Post by tathougies » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 8:52 PM UTC

tomrod wrote: post #15

bytematic wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could this apply, or have applied, to farms? I bet that would have a lot of interesting social effects.

In my area it already does. My Indian colleagues informed me that grocery stores that cater to their culture typically have exclusive agreements with local Indian farmers, which results in significantly reduced prices. I thought that was wonderful--I'm a fan of frugality. I'm curious if this is common in the US in other immigrant communities.

> I'm curious if this is common in the US in other immigrant communities.

Yes absolutely. As an Indian American, I'm familiar with the Indian grocery store model. However, I grew up in a majority vietnamese area of Southern California, and most of my friends growing up were vietnamese. They had a few interesting hustles going on:

1. A few families were involved in growing produce in their backyards, and grocery stores would source these fruits. Many of the fruits (certainly not all) popular in Vietnam would grow in the heat of SoCal, but they were not farmed commercially.

2. My mom's friend told her that many vietnamese restaurants sourced their egg rolls from various aunties scattered around the community. The egg roll they made was very standardized, and they would sell many trays a day to the restaurants for cents on the dollar.

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#97

Post by naeemtee » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 8:54 PM UTC

iguy wrote: post #45

sumeetjain wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a very strong individualist streak in American culture and a very strong taboo against lending friends or family members money I think the individualist streak in American culture is better shown by people being unwilling to seek help from friends/family. I might call an unwillingness to help others (assuming one can afford to do so) selfishness -- not individualism. But what I have seen in American is, as…

I think it's much deeper than "individualist streak in American culture". Western Europe in the last 1000 years or so has been a very unusual place... one aspect of which is having nuclear families not extended ones. Because (crudely speaking) the catholic church wished to diminish alternative power structures, such as clans. This led to an unusually open society, which had many benefits... with generally higher leve…

There are several things wrong with this line of thinking (as others have pointed out), but I'd like to draw attention to a less salient point you made:

> This led to an unusually open society, which had many benefits... with generally higher levels of trust among strangers.

It's interesting that you're portraying the openness of European society in a strongly positive light, given the high levels of abject loneliness prevalent primarily in the west.

Communal living has been a staple for much of human existence, the level of isolation most people in western Europe and North America (and now, much of east Asia) face is a direct result of European "openness" (which spread through east Asia via the British originally, and destabilization + American media later).

The biggest risk to the future of the West is the lack of strong families. That's where India, above all others, shines.

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#98

Post by sunpatel » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 8:59 PM UTC

As a second generation patel I can say entrepreneurship runs in our blood. Although my dad's hotel did not work out, I've never had a full time job with benefits and I've spent 11 years trying to build iorad.com.

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#99

Post by iguy » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 9:00 PM UTC

tathougies wrote: post #91

iguy wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's much deeper than "individualist streak in American culture". Western Europe in the last 1000 years or so has been a very unusual place... one aspect of which is having nuclear families not extended ones. Because (crudely speaking) the catholic church wished to diminish alternative power structures, such as clans. This led to an unusually open society, which had many benefits... with generally higher leve…

> Because (crudely speaking) the catholic church wished to diminish alternative power structures, such as clans. This led to an unusually open society, which had many benefits... with generally higher levels of trust among strangers. Oh please... Indian Catholic families still act in extended structures. I mean, three of my uncles are priests and one is a bishop. We've been Christian for thousands of years. We're sti…

To be clear, my claim above is that the church, as a centralising power structure in "christaindom" circa 1000AD, played some role in pushing the culture there towards openness, or in making extended families less important.

Claiming that christianity always and everywhere does this would be pretty obviously wrong, and I did not say this. And indeed even within europe today, catholic-ness is anti-correlated with this kind of "openness" -- because the core relevant for this has long since gone protestant or atheist.

I hold this claim weakly. There are other arguments for what happened. But regardless of why, my main point was that Europe (and especially a core area) was an outlier on this universalist/clannish scale. And that both ends have advantages, depending on the situation.

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#100

Post by ofcrpls » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 9:05 PM UTC

AdamM12 wrote: post #72

stephengillie wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't say how big is the loan, nor how many were needed to buy the hotel. They might have had to shake hands with everyone in their family. Some Asian immigrant families form a "lending circle" where they choose a member to go 1st, and everyone gives their extra money to that person, and they buy a hotel/restaurant/etc. The circle chooses a 2nd, and everyone gives them spare money - it's a lot faster this time,…

Worked in restaurant industry. Latino workers had a pool of money that the all put into and if I remember correctly they rotated who the paid it out to for big purchases like this. I think they mainly used it for like cars and homes.

These are called https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chit_fund. Pretty common in countries where access to the formal banking sector, especially for women who are home-makers, is complicated.