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How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

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Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#71

Post by fermienrico »

tomrod wrote: post #15
bytematic wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could this apply, or have applied, to farms? I bet that would have a lot of interesting social effects.

In my area it already does. My Indian colleagues informed me that grocery stores that cater to their culture typically have exclusive agreements with local Indian farmers, which results in significantly reduced prices. I thought that was wonderful--I'm a fan of frugality. I'm curious if this is common in the US in other immigrant communities.

My dad's friend is an Indian farmer in Valdosta, GA. He has 10k acres of land, has his own private plane and flies Indian groceries to Houston once a week.

He immigrated to the US back in the 60's. I had a chance to meet him and he had an extraordinary character. He had no formalities and greeted us at his farm house without a shirt on. He was old but fit and you can tell what he has gone through in his life to make a living.

He spoke fluent spanish and everyone loved him in Valdosta. We spent 3 days there and went to restaurants in the evening. Everyone greeted him as if he was some kind of a hero in the town. It was really an amazing experience to have met him and his family - just shows how immigrants assimilate in the most remote places in the US, especially in a hostile place such as south Georgia in the 60's.

Edit: This story is from 2002.

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#72

Post by AdamM12 »

stephengillie wrote: post #55
monocasa wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? The killer app here seems to be access to capital on amazing terms. > They would give each other handshake loans—no collateral, no payment schedule, just pay when you can

They don't say how big is the loan, nor how many were needed to buy the hotel. They might have had to shake hands with everyone in their family. Some Asian immigrant families form a "lending circle" where they choose a member to go 1st, and everyone gives their extra money to that person, and they buy a hotel/restaurant/etc. The circle chooses a 2nd, and everyone gives them spare money - it's a lot faster this time,…

Worked in restaurant industry. Latino workers had a pool of money that the all put into and if I remember correctly they rotated who the paid it out to for big purchases like this. I think they mainly used it for like cars and homes.

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#73

Post by vram22 »

sidlls wrote: post #28
stephengillie wrote: post #3

This model has led to success for other immigrant groups in other industries. > Many followed his advice. “They would give each other handshake loans—no collateral, no payment schedule, just pay when you can,” Doshi explains. Once a family purchased a motel, they would live there, and the family members would do all the tasks needed to run it, from cleaning rooms to checking in guests. That helped keep costs down, an…

It's not (just) that most Americans feel these jobs aren't worth their time. There is a very strong individualist streak in American culture and a very strong taboo against lending friends or family members money for any reason. There are plenty of American families who have relations who could easily help bootstrap a profitable small business in the way described here. It just doesn't happen that way very often. Ins…

>It's not (just) that most Americans feel these jobs aren't worth their time. There is a very strong individualist streak in American culture and a very strong taboo against lending friends or family members money for any reason.

Interesting. Never heard of this before. Why do you think it is so (the taboo)? (I read some replies to your comment below, just want to see if you think something different).

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#74

Post by iguy »

vram22 wrote: post #70
iguy wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an interesting ancient pattern of small minority groups dominating certain businesses, often ones which need trust -- here "handshake loans", but traditionally also simply payment for goods shipped long-distances. e.g. The Greek trader in one little Egyptian town could be more confident in dealing with another Greek trader somewhere in Italy, a week's sail away, because while he might be tempted to run off wi…

It's sort of common knowledge in India that Gujaratis, Sindhis, Punjabis and Malayalis (Keralites) are generally pretty enterprising and are often businessmen, both within India and abroad. There can be other such Indian communities too, of course. These are just the ones I have heard of (from childhood) as tending to be more so. For example, the Patels in the US are the topic of this thread; then there are lots of P…

Yes indeed, they specialise within India too. And surely some of the same network benefits may apply there too. Surely Parsi entrepreneurs (a century ago) got better loans... backed in part by the fear of angering a close community?

It's also my hazy impression that the plantation-labor Indian groups haven't done nearly as well on the whole.

Another example is the surprisingly high proportion of overseas Chinese who are from Fujian.

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#75

Post by jlg23 »

iguy wrote: post #45
sumeetjain wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a very strong individualist streak in American culture and a very strong taboo against lending friends or family members money I think the individualist streak in American culture is better shown by people being unwilling to seek help from friends/family. I might call an unwillingness to help others (assuming one can afford to do so) selfishness -- not individualism. But what I have seen in American is, as…

I think it's much deeper than "individualist streak in American culture". Western Europe in the last 1000 years or so has been a very unusual place... one aspect of which is having nuclear families not extended ones. Because (crudely speaking) the catholic church wished to diminish alternative power structures, such as clans. This led to an unusually open society, which had many benefits... with generally higher leve…

Unless you have some references, I'd call this a "nice theory" (to be read with a British accent).

Spontaneously:

* South America appeared to be more catholic than any Western European or US-American place I've visited, but family and extended family are still a big thing.

* Calvinists seem to be much more "open" than catholics to me.

* Damn, I want the secret recipe that lets me set a policy and enforce it in vast areas (at times without any reliable messenger system) and across many generations, even if my successor comes from a different faction within the catholic church.

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#76

Post by holymoly1 »

vkou wrote: post #64
stephengillie wrote: post #3

This model has led to success for other immigrant groups in other industries. > Many followed his advice. “They would give each other handshake loans—no collateral, no payment schedule, just pay when you can,” Doshi explains. Once a family purchased a motel, they would live there, and the family members would do all the tasks needed to run it, from cleaning rooms to checking in guests. That helped keep costs down, an…

> The "killer app" here appears to be a lack of resources beyond established relationships. Because of this, whole families were willing to spend their time doing work that most Americans feel is not worth their time. I really dislike this argument. It makes middle-class Americans sound like a bunch of ungrateful churls, because they think that is beneath them (at the price the employer is willing to pay, but that pa…

>> I don't want to pick strawberries for $5/hour, when my rent is $2250/month. That's not because manual labour is beneath me.

It is about economics and expectations. No, it is because a $1000 apartment is apparently beneath you. It is the same reason there is a "shortage" in technology yet thousands of Indians applying for those jobs -- because most American students dont want to live in outer San Jose, San Martin, or Rucker and commute for 4hrs or live in nasty apartments. Most Americans also dont want to be tied on Production Support getting calls all night for crap wages.

And frankly, I dont blame you. I'm a computer science grad in the US. The bay area wages, even while inflated, are not living wages for families, certainly nothing given my excellent education...and alternatives. I'm in management. I work half the hours, and earn a good pay.

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#77

Post by dan0- »

vkou wrote: post #64
stephengillie wrote: post #3

This model has led to success for other immigrant groups in other industries. > Many followed his advice. “They would give each other handshake loans—no collateral, no payment schedule, just pay when you can,” Doshi explains. Once a family purchased a motel, they would live there, and the family members would do all the tasks needed to run it, from cleaning rooms to checking in guests. That helped keep costs down, an…

> The "killer app" here appears to be a lack of resources beyond established relationships. Because of this, whole families were willing to spend their time doing work that most Americans feel is not worth their time. I really dislike this argument. It makes middle-class Americans sound like a bunch of ungrateful churls, because they think that is beneath them (at the price the employer is willing to pay, but that pa…

Nevermind that scheduling family members to work can be much easier than a worker you hire, which lets a small business run with fewer employees working more valuable hours.

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#78

Post by vkou »

holymoly1 wrote: post #76
vkou wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The "killer app" here appears to be a lack of resources beyond established relationships. Because of this, whole families were willing to spend their time doing work that most Americans feel is not worth their time. I really dislike this argument. It makes middle-class Americans sound like a bunch of ungrateful churls, because they think that is beneath them (at the price the employer is willing to pay, but that pa…

>> I don't want to pick strawberries for $5/hour, when my rent is $2250/month. That's not because manual labour is beneath me. It is about economics and expectations. No, it is because a $1000 apartment is apparently beneath you. It is the same reason there is a "shortage" in technology yet thousands of Indians applying for those jobs -- because most American students dont want to live in outer San Jose, San Martin,…

> It is about economics and expectations. No, it is because a $1000 apartment is apparently beneath you.

And yet, letting my apartment out for $1000 is apparently beneath my landlord (Look at how entitled he is, to be asking $2250! It's almost like that's the price the market is willing to bear!)

Yet, we only use this sort of judgmental language to express outrage at employees, unwilling to work at a price below what the market is willing to bear.

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#79

Post by danenania »

chc wrote: post #50
sumeetjain wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a very strong individualist streak in American culture and a very strong taboo against lending friends or family members money I think the individualist streak in American culture is better shown by people being unwilling to seek help from friends/family. I might call an unwillingness to help others (assuming one can afford to do so) selfishness -- not individualism. But what I have seen in American is, as…

> I think the individualist streak in American culture is better shown by people being unwilling to seek help from friends/family. I might call an unwillingness to help others (assuming one can afford to do so) selfishness -- not individualism. It's not just practicing individualism, but insisting on it . People don't help others partly because they tell themselves that the person needs to make their own way. It is u…

While I completely see your point about the negative side of individualism, I think this attitude is also partly based on a very culturally healthy distaste for nepotism.

When you ask your rich uncle for a loan, it's hard for both him and you to really know whether it's being given because he believes in you, or because there is perceived to be an obligation. And where there is an obligation to give loans/favors just based on familial ties, it's a slippery slope to a culture of nepotism and corruption where your name matters more than your skills and accomplishments.

I'm not saying that relatives shouldn't help each other, but perhaps it's not such a bad thing that people seek out other avenues first in non-emergency situations. It's a delicate balance to be sure.

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#80

Post by spunker540 »

siruncledrew wrote: post #34
sidlls wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not (just) that most Americans feel these jobs aren't worth their time. There is a very strong individualist streak in American culture and a very strong taboo against lending friends or family members money for any reason. There are plenty of American families who have relations who could easily help bootstrap a profitable small business in the way described here. It just doesn't happen that way very often. Ins…

Jeff Bezos also got a loan from his parents. Having parents with disposable capital in the >$50k range is definitely not something the majority of American families can provide. https://medium.com/@timconneally/companies-started-by-loans-...

To be fair, with Jeff Bezos and his parents it wasn't a loan but purchased equity that is now worth billions.
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