How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels • Hacker News Board

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#41

Post by 80386 » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 7:20 PM UTC

sumeetjain wrote: post #31

sidlls wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not (just) that most Americans feel these jobs aren't worth their time. There is a very strong individualist streak in American culture and a very strong taboo against lending friends or family members money for any reason. There are plenty of American families who have relations who could easily help bootstrap a profitable small business in the way described here. It just doesn't happen that way very often. Ins…

> There is a very strong individualist streak in American culture and a very strong taboo against lending friends or family members money I think the individualist streak in American culture is better shown by people being unwilling to seek help from friends/family. I might call an unwillingness to help others (assuming one can afford to do so) selfishness -- not individualism. But what I have seen in American is, as…

> I think the individualist streak in American culture is better shown by people being unwilling to seek help from friends/family.

And our families are, cross-culturally, unusually small. I talk to my parents every few weeks. Not so much my aunts and uncles. I have a few cousins who I see every fifth Christmas or so, and anyone more distant than that may as well be unrelated. This seems to be common within American culture, but it leads to weak social networks - unless you go to the right college and can network there.

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#42

Post by justaguyhere » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 7:22 PM UTC

dv_dt wrote: post #33

justaguyhere wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently learned about oulipo ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oulipo ) who create works with constraints (sometimes severe) and the results are quite amazing. Lack of resources can be sometimes a blessing in disguise whether it is literature or hard business. I wonder why Americans don't do this (maybe they do, I don't know) - why borrow from banks (or VCs etc) with strict strings attached, instead of supporting on…

There has been a long term decline of community banks, which might be the more American equivalent of this kind of lending. https://www.stlouisfed.org/Publications/Central-Banker/Fall-... The Small Business Administration also helps with loan guarantees. So the support is sort of there, but takes a different form, and maybe one could say the impersonal nature of it is both a strength and a weakness in comparison. Num…

I suspect this has to do with the difficulty of more and more Americans in attaining any savings from their wages

All the more important to support one another. Although, if everyone in a person's trust circle is more or less in the same boat, then tough luck :(

With no meaningful support from gov/banks etc, people banding together to help each other might be an alternative. Some non profits are working in this space too. After Sandy, some orgs in NY were giving interest free loans to small biz people who lost their trucks etc.

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#43

Post by nashashmi » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 7:25 PM UTC

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #17

Can someone tell me why the surname of Patel is so predominant in the hotel owners? The article doesn't really explain why.

The Gujaratis are known to be big on business as the bread and butter of life. Even the simplest of businesses is something they would rather pick up than learn an actual trade. Of the Gujaratis, the Patel's are known for being the biggest pursuers of business. Aside from being a common name, Patel is synonymous to owning a business.

One of the ways that Gujaratis come to America is use the investments route, sort of like investment chain migration. One member takes an investment, migrates, sets up business, profits, then sends the money back home, for others to travel in the same visa program. Then two people come, twice the profit, twice the pace of bringing people over. These business groups form around family bonds typically.

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#44

Post by skookumchuck » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 7:27 PM UTC

sidlls wrote: post #28

stephengillie wrote: post #3

This model has led to success for other immigrant groups in other industries. > Many followed his advice. “They would give each other handshake loans—no collateral, no payment schedule, just pay when you can,” Doshi explains. Once a family purchased a motel, they would live there, and the family members would do all the tasks needed to run it, from cleaning rooms to checking in guests. That helped keep costs down, an…

It's not (just) that most Americans feel these jobs aren't worth their time. There is a very strong individualist streak in American culture and a very strong taboo against lending friends or family members money for any reason. There are plenty of American families who have relations who could easily help bootstrap a profitable small business in the way described here. It just doesn't happen that way very often. Ins…

> Instead the typical means to wealth is inheritance or luck of birth providing access to investment capital

The typical means to wealth is spending below one's means and investing the rest.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/01/style/fire-financial-inde...

And there's the book "The Millionaire Next Door" which shows that 85% of American millionaires are self-made, usually through spending below one's means and investing the rest.

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#45

Post by iguy » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 7:30 PM UTC

sumeetjain wrote: post #31

sidlls wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not (just) that most Americans feel these jobs aren't worth their time. There is a very strong individualist streak in American culture and a very strong taboo against lending friends or family members money for any reason. There are plenty of American families who have relations who could easily help bootstrap a profitable small business in the way described here. It just doesn't happen that way very often. Ins…

> There is a very strong individualist streak in American culture and a very strong taboo against lending friends or family members money I think the individualist streak in American culture is better shown by people being unwilling to seek help from friends/family. I might call an unwillingness to help others (assuming one can afford to do so) selfishness -- not individualism. But what I have seen in American is, as…

I think it's much deeper than "individualist streak in American culture".

Western Europe in the last 1000 years or so has been a very unusual place... one aspect of which is having nuclear families not extended ones. Because (crudely speaking) the catholic church wished to diminish alternative power structures, such as clans. This led to an unusually open society, which had many benefits... with generally higher levels of trust among strangers.

But it has some costs, too. Like not having tight connections for bootstrapping motels in a foreign land.

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#46

Post by reaperducer » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 7:31 PM UTC

sidlls wrote: post #28

stephengillie wrote: post #3

This model has led to success for other immigrant groups in other industries. > Many followed his advice. “They would give each other handshake loans—no collateral, no payment schedule, just pay when you can,” Doshi explains. Once a family purchased a motel, they would live there, and the family members would do all the tasks needed to run it, from cleaning rooms to checking in guests. That helped keep costs down, an…

It's not (just) that most Americans feel these jobs aren't worth their time. There is a very strong individualist streak in American culture and a very strong taboo against lending friends or family members money for any reason. There are plenty of American families who have relations who could easily help bootstrap a profitable small business in the way described here. It just doesn't happen that way very often. Ins…

a very strong taboo against lending friends or family members money for any reason.

This is true. I think we got it from the British.

Hamlet: Act 1, scene 3:

"Neither a borrower nor a lender be,

For loan oft loses both itself and friend,

And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry"

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#47

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 7:33 PM UTC

sidlls wrote: post #28

stephengillie wrote: post #3

This model has led to success for other immigrant groups in other industries. > Many followed his advice. “They would give each other handshake loans—no collateral, no payment schedule, just pay when you can,” Doshi explains. Once a family purchased a motel, they would live there, and the family members would do all the tasks needed to run it, from cleaning rooms to checking in guests. That helped keep costs down, an…

It's not (just) that most Americans feel these jobs aren't worth their time. There is a very strong individualist streak in American culture and a very strong taboo against lending friends or family members money for any reason. There are plenty of American families who have relations who could easily help bootstrap a profitable small business in the way described here. It just doesn't happen that way very often. Ins…

[deleted]

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#48

Post by lotsofpulp » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 7:33 PM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #40

jessaustin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one who travels and stays in small-to-medium-sized hotels is shocked by this. I have a complaint, however. We have so many Indian-Americans distributed all over the nation, and it is still fairly difficult to find good Indian food outside big cities.

I've wondered about this, but what I've heard is that few Indian families eat out very often.

Indian food is labor intensive and uses expensive ingredients. Restaurants are also low margin businesses that don't scale well and are super risky, not something I'd advise someone to do unless they have a passion for it and ability to fail and carry on with life.

I have not been to a single Indian restaurant that can compare to a home cooked Gujarati meal, especially made by someone who grew up there.

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#49

Post by reaperducer » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 7:34 PM UTC

wdewind wrote: post #35

monocasa wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? The killer app here seems to be access to capital on amazing terms. > They would give each other handshake loans—no collateral, no payment schedule, just pay when you can

Also access to cheap/free labor, also perhaps underaged labor?

Yes, having family members work for you for free is legal.

My accountant once encouraged me to try to get my family members involved in a business I ran just for that reason.

Re: How Indian Americans Came to Run Half of All U.S. Motels

#50

Post by chc » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 7:35 PM UTC

sumeetjain wrote: post #31

sidlls wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not (just) that most Americans feel these jobs aren't worth their time. There is a very strong individualist streak in American culture and a very strong taboo against lending friends or family members money for any reason. There are plenty of American families who have relations who could easily help bootstrap a profitable small business in the way described here. It just doesn't happen that way very often. Ins…

> There is a very strong individualist streak in American culture and a very strong taboo against lending friends or family members money I think the individualist streak in American culture is better shown by people being unwilling to seek help from friends/family. I might call an unwillingness to help others (assuming one can afford to do so) selfishness -- not individualism. But what I have seen in American is, as…

> I think the individualist streak in American culture is better shown by people being unwilling to seek help from friends/family. I might call an unwillingness to help others (assuming one can afford to do so) selfishness -- not individualism.

It's not just practicing individualism, but insisting on it. People don't help others partly because they tell themselves that the person needs to make their own way. It is ultimately a justification for selfishness, but the justification is individualism. And I suspect many people who would otherwise not be too proud to ask for help still won't because they perceive that this is a prominent idea in American culture.

> An interesting clarification: People will more readily accept help from strangers -- e.g. a Kickstarter campaign, bank loan, or VC investment doesn't diminish one's pride in the way that the same support from someone's parents might.

I think that goes back to the same point. Those routes are branded as entrepreneurship, which is like +10 individualism points. If I asked my rich uncle for a loan, he (and many other people) would perceive this as dependency and therefore vaguely shameful. If I took out a bank loan, even though it's technically the same action, those same people would perceive it as an admirable show of entrepreneurial initiative.