What Your Boss Could Learn by Reading the Whole Company’s Emails • Hacker News Board

Re: What Your Boss Could Learn by Reading the Whole Company’s Emails

#41

Post by everdev » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 5:13 PM UTC

dingaling wrote: post #16

Luc wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised things would be that clear cut even in the USA. Though it's certainly a very American thing for employees to argue that corporations having power over them is the right and proper order of things.

I worked for a UK subsidiary of a US company. Right on the login screen was notification that all use and communication was subject to monitoring. Why would it be otherwise? You are paid to do the company's business with the equipment they provide. It's not a matter of 'power'. Imagine a UPS driver taking the van to run errands for his friends. Few people would argue that it is inappropriate for UPS to track the van…

Yes, people abuse freedoms all the time, but to many a lack of privacy is a bigger threat.

Imagine someone who is breaking the law at work and someone who is breaking the same law in their home. Just substitute "employer" for "government" as a reason why people should be constantly and fully monitored without any probably cause. It's basically like saying everyone's electronic communication should be monitored at all times to see if they are feeling sad, angry, etc. which might put them at risk of committing a crime.

The right to privacy is fundamental to freedom and it shouldn't stop once you walk in the workplace.

Re: What Your Boss Could Learn by Reading the Whole Company’s Emails

#42

Post by everdev » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 5:18 PM UTC

astura wrote: post #37

toomuchtodo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why you should have your own out of band Slack team or other group comms outside of corporate control. Don't say in email what you should say over the phone. Don't say over the phone what you should say in person.

What are you (regularly?) saying to your coworkers you wouldn't want your boss to hear?

That's the old argument "why do you need privacy if you're not doing anything wrong?"

The problem is there are grey lines everywhere and people are usually more judgemental of others than themselves even if they knowingly or unknowingly participate in the same behavior.

Re: What Your Boss Could Learn by Reading the Whole Company’s Emails

#43

Post by 394549 » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 5:19 PM UTC

UweSchmidt wrote: post #11

jedberg wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it's still a group invasion of privacy. You shouldn't expect any privacy regarding anything you do at or for work (other than using the restroom). The email and chat servers are theirs, and they have every right to read the emails. Good companies will at least tell you when they're reading your email, but legally they don't even have to do that.

A very concerning attitude, to assume people have no rights at a workplace. Ironically and disappointingly this attitude seems prevalent among Americans.

> A very concerning attitude, to assume people have no rights at a workplace. Ironically and disappointingly this attitude seems prevalent among Americans.

I'm an American, and it seems many of my countrymen think property rights should trump all other rights.

Re: What Your Boss Could Learn by Reading the Whole Company’s Emails

#44

Post by awb » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 5:23 PM UTC

annabellish wrote: post #20

jedberg wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it's still a group invasion of privacy. You shouldn't expect any privacy regarding anything you do at or for work (other than using the restroom). The email and chat servers are theirs, and they have every right to read the emails. Good companies will at least tell you when they're reading your email, but legally they don't even have to do that.

This attitude that the workplace is a minor, independent kingdom for the capitalists above you, where you shouldn't expect to be treated well or with respect is a scary one indeed. Workers are not untrustworthy beasts that need to be corralled, or at least shouldn't be, and we shouldn't accept being told that we are. _We_ are the ones who create the value, _we_ are the ones who the world could not run without.

I agree that workers should be treated with privacy and respect, but please don't overlook how important managers are.

The good thing about capitalism is that profitability wins. If a company can be more profitable without managers they will have a competitive advantage in the marketplace and that organisational structure will spread.

As humans we see leaders and a hierarchies in most of our organizations. They seem to be pretty helpful.

Re: What Your Boss Could Learn by Reading the Whole Company’s Emails

#45

Post by annabellish » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 6:14 PM UTC

awb wrote: post #44

annabellish wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This attitude that the workplace is a minor, independent kingdom for the capitalists above you, where you shouldn't expect to be treated well or with respect is a scary one indeed. Workers are not untrustworthy beasts that need to be corralled, or at least shouldn't be, and we shouldn't accept being told that we are. _We_ are the ones who create the value, _we_ are the ones who the world could not run without.

I agree that workers should be treated with privacy and respect, but please don't overlook how important managers are. The good thing about capitalism is that profitability wins. If a company can be more profitable without managers they will have a competitive advantage in the marketplace and that organisational structure will spread. As humans we see leaders and a hierarchies in most of our organizations. They seem…

_Managers_ can be extremely helpful, and I'd argue a good manager is just as much a creator of value. Managers != Capitalists. You cannot be a good manager if you don't trust the people you're managing, whether because you're untrusting or because they're untrustworthy. It's an untenable situation that must be resolved one way or another, and removing employee privacy and respect is not the answer.

Re: What Your Boss Could Learn by Reading the Whole Company’s Emails

#46

Post by Soundest » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 7:05 PM UTC

>KeenCorp doesn’t read the emails, exactly—its software focuses on word patterns and their context.

Well if that isn't the biggest pile of horse shit I've ever heard, I don't know what is.

We don't read your e-mails, we just have a program that injests the contents of your email and assign you an unexplainable number that might get you fired. Oh, and we lied about reading your e-mails, this software totally does that. Trust us!