Is the Lean Startup Dead? • Hacker News Board

Re: Is the Lean Startup Dead?

#111

Post by wolco » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 4:35 PM UTC

akuji1993 wrote: post #4

$1 billion for a video streaming service?? Are these people actually insane? I don't see any way they will make back that much money with a service in a completely oversaturated part of the internet where YouTube, Netflix and other streaming services are pretty much meeting every desire any customer would have. I mean, power to the people that have invested, but this looks like an investment graveyard.

The future of usershot[p short videos are the new 360 camera videos. Youtube can have a place but there is room for other players.

Re: Is the Lean Startup Dead?

#112

Post by pnenp » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 4:36 PM UTC

Calling a popular term "dead" is certainly a good way to attract clicks. And sure, when money is cheap and you have $2B to spend, you can afford to throw much bigger Spaghetti at the wall. But Lean defines a startup as a project under extreme uncertainty. Commercial video streaming sites exist, the only thing that seems to be new about the example in the article is the video length. I would not consider this an environment of extreme uncertainty. So imho, while cheap money does change the equation, 99% of the article's punch lies in its clickbaity headline.

Re: Is the Lean Startup Dead?

#113

Post by s73v3r_ » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 4:37 PM UTC

awvcs wrote: post #37

I wish it wasn't so but I do think to the degree you can declare something dead the lean startup is. The problem is that lean startups requires a number of things that aren't accessible anymore. A) Maybe the most important is time. You need time in a good environment to actually develop something. Which has become a lot more costly. B) Large companies are controlling more areas than ever. People often wary of regulat…

"C) And then there is just competition, especially for things like talent."

I feel startups did this to themselves. It used to be that you'd work for a startup and the equity was supposed to pay off if the startup was acquired or took off. Now, even though a startup may sell for several billion or go public, most employee's equity has been diluted to hell and back, barely making up for the lower salary.

Re: Is the Lean Startup Dead?

#114

Post by jerrre » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 4:39 PM UTC

dgudkov wrote: post #107

I'm not sure I understand this. You can't skip finding product/market fit. No matter how much money you have, if you have no product/market fit you're toast. If you're not desperate to find product/market fit (as Lean startups are) because you have tons of money -- you may never find it. To me, Lean startup is not about money. It's about building the most efficient process of finding product/market fit. Once you've f…

FFF = Friends, Family, and Fsomething?

Re: Is the Lean Startup Dead?

#115

Post by girmad » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 4:40 PM UTC

jerrre wrote: post #114

dgudkov wrote: post #107

I'm not sure I understand this. You can't skip finding product/market fit. No matter how much money you have, if you have no product/market fit you're toast. If you're not desperate to find product/market fit (as Lean startups are) because you have tons of money -- you may never find it. To me, Lean startup is not about money. It's about building the most efficient process of finding product/market fit. Once you've f…

FFF = Friends, Family, and Fsomething?

I think the saying is Friends, Family, Fools.

Re: Is the Lean Startup Dead?

#116

Post by sandworm101 » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 4:41 PM UTC

simias wrote: post #100

sandworm101 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disruption doesn't come from direct competition. Writing another web browser isn't going to disrupt the market for web browsers. You need a new concept in how we access web-type material. That would disrupt, and wouldn't need much code. Look at Napster et al. They weren't massive but still disrupted the music industry. The gaming industry still has room for lone coders to make a difference. Many of the top indi games…

> Disruption doesn't come from direct competition. Writing another web browser isn't going to disrupt the market for web browsers. You need a new concept in how we access web-type material. That would disrupt, and wouldn't need much code. Look at Napster et al. They weren't massive but still disrupted the music industry. Sure but my point is more general: if I create a new lean web-like protocol and client and it can…

I hate when my phone wastes my time loading junk. A browser that couldn't even try, that couldn't be tricked into doing so, would find a market imho.

Re: Is the Lean Startup Dead?

#117

Post by monksy » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 4:42 PM UTC

It has always been dead or near dead. That's the point of a lean startup. It's a recession business operating in a surplus market. They're trying to make it successful despite market evaluation. (Can be a good thing or a bad thing.. mostly it's a bad thing for the long term economy, bad for customer value and solving customer needs)

Re: Is the Lean Startup Dead?

#118

Post by bitwize » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 4:42 PM UTC

jerrre wrote: post #114

dgudkov wrote: post #107

I'm not sure I understand this. You can't skip finding product/market fit. No matter how much money you have, if you have no product/market fit you're toast. If you're not desperate to find product/market fit (as Lean startups are) because you have tons of money -- you may never find it. To me, Lean startup is not about money. It's about building the most efficient process of finding product/market fit. Once you've f…

FFF = Friends, Family, and Fsomething?

Friends, Family, and Fucking for cash?

Don't knock it. It's helped launch many an Instagram influencer's career, I bet it's gotten a few startups off the ground as well.

Re: Is the Lean Startup Dead?

#119

Post by Karrot_Kream » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 4:43 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #93

simias wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A) Maybe the most important is time. You need time in a good environment to actually develop something. Which has become a lot more costly. Why do you think that is? I'm not sure what you're referring to exactly. >B) Large companies are controlling more areas than ever. People often wary of regulation as a barrier, but as time goes by the market participants creates their own barriers. Many areas are just harder to…

> That one definitely sounds true to me, the complexity of modern software definitely makes it harder to be competitive with big shops. As software professionals, this is a problem of our own making. Nobody is asking for software to be complex. Users don’t want complexity. Development companies don’t want costly complexity. Software developers don’t even want complexity. Who has sat down at the start of a project and…

A lot of these abstractions, for good or for ill, make it easier for "large" organizations (where "large" here means > 10 people) to iterate quickly. Users do not need the abstraction, but it makes the organization as a whole quicker and more agile. It is an interesting question whether startups can enter a market served by a larger organization and disrupt it by offering lean products built by lean teams.

Re: Is the Lean Startup Dead?

#120

Post by jerrre » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 4:43 PM UTC

simias wrote: post #100

sandworm101 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disruption doesn't come from direct competition. Writing another web browser isn't going to disrupt the market for web browsers. You need a new concept in how we access web-type material. That would disrupt, and wouldn't need much code. Look at Napster et al. They weren't massive but still disrupted the music industry. The gaming industry still has room for lone coders to make a difference. Many of the top indi games…

> Disruption doesn't come from direct competition. Writing another web browser isn't going to disrupt the market for web browsers. You need a new concept in how we access web-type material. That would disrupt, and wouldn't need much code. Look at Napster et al. They weren't massive but still disrupted the music industry. Sure but my point is more general: if I create a new lean web-like protocol and client and it can…

Disruption wont come from yet-another-browser, and of course surely it won't come from yet-another-browser-with-less-features

It might come from a piece of software that solves a problem for some group of people that a browser can't, and then evolving towards the mainstream replacing the role that browsers have right now making them obsolete