RPCS3 and Dolphin on macOS using gfx-portability • Hacker News Board

Re: RPCS3 and Dolphin on macOS using gfx-portability

#31

Post by kvark » Tue, Sep 04, 2018, 8:20 PM UTC

mikhailt wrote: post #30

kvark wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> projects like Metal on Vulkan (MoltanVK) It's not Metal on Vulkan, it's the other way around. Also, kind of strange to bring this up when the topic is about gfx-portability progress (which is competing with MoltenVK).

That is correct, my morning brain mixed it up because of writing of MoltanVK started me off on Metal on Vulkan. I bought it up because of the general topic of Vulkan and Metal, not because of gfx-rs itself. MoltanVK deserves a mention due to Khronos Group sponsoring it.

This is sadly a common misconception, partly due to Khronos messaging. MoltenVK is sponsored by Valve, not Khronos.

Both gfx-rs and MoltenVK are working in Vulkan Portability TSG, and both are promoted by the slides/talks if you read carefully. MoltenVK just gets more attention because it's packed by LunarG and used in Dota2.

Re: RPCS3 and Dolphin on macOS using gfx-portability

#32

Post by kvark » Tue, Sep 04, 2018, 8:22 PM UTC

zamadatix wrote: post #27

kvark wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Metal isn't new, it's older than Vulkan, and by some metrics I would consider it better. For one, the learning curve is much smoother: you can get something up on screen quickly, but only later discover the advanced features like argument buffers, manual hazard tracking, etc.

We are talking 4 years old (3 for desktop) years old vs 2 years old, you're kidding yourself if you think either is established by virtue of being old vs new. That comparison was only fair with OpenGl.

Sure! I'm just pointing out that your earlier statement was off the mark, and it posed Metal as "something new that could be better than Vulkan".

Re: RPCS3 and Dolphin on macOS using gfx-portability

#33

Post by mikhailt » Tue, Sep 04, 2018, 9:15 PM UTC

kvark wrote: post #31

mikhailt wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is correct, my morning brain mixed it up because of writing of MoltanVK started me off on Metal on Vulkan. I bought it up because of the general topic of Vulkan and Metal, not because of gfx-rs itself. MoltanVK deserves a mention due to Khronos Group sponsoring it.

This is sadly a common misconception, partly due to Khronos messaging. MoltenVK is sponsored by Valve, not Khronos. Both gfx-rs and MoltenVK are working in Vulkan Portability TSG, and both are promoted by the slides/talks if you read carefully. MoltenVK just gets more attention because it's packed by LunarG and used in Dota2.

I saw MoltenVK under KhronosGroup control here, which led to my confusion once more: https://github.com/KhronosGroup/MoltenVK

And yea, the messaging is confusing because of this line on their site:

> As a first deliverable from the Vulkan Portability Initiative, Khronos members Valve, LunarG, and The Brenwill Workshop have released a collection of free and open source set of tools, SDKs, and runtime libraries to enable Vulkan development on macOS and deployment on macOS and iOS platforms

Source: https://www.khronos.org/vulkan/portability-initiative

That led me to think they’re sponsoring it.

It looks like MoltenVK was created by The Brenwill Workshop.

Re: RPCS3 and Dolphin on macOS using gfx-portability

#34

Post by kvark » Tue, Sep 04, 2018, 9:44 PM UTC

mikhailt wrote: post #33

kvark wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is sadly a common misconception, partly due to Khronos messaging. MoltenVK is sponsored by Valve, not Khronos. Both gfx-rs and MoltenVK are working in Vulkan Portability TSG, and both are promoted by the slides/talks if you read carefully. MoltenVK just gets more attention because it's packed by LunarG and used in Dota2.

I saw MoltenVK under KhronosGroup control here, which led to my confusion once more: https://github.com/KhronosGroup/MoltenVK And yea, the messaging is confusing because of this line on their site: > As a first deliverable from the Vulkan Portability Initiative, Khronos members Valve, LunarG, and The Brenwill Workshop have released a collection of free and open source set of tools, SDKs, and runtime libraries to enab…

KhronosGroup github organization may be hosting projects of Khronos members that align with Khronos mission, but they aren't necessary the deliverables of any working groups and thus can't be official/sponsored.

> Khronos members Valve, LunarG, and The Brenwill Workshop have released

It's like saying "W3C members Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp have released ..." :D

Basically, Valve released something that they want to look like it's supported by Khronos. And this trick worked - now everybody believes it to be a Khronos product.

Re: RPCS3 and Dolphin on macOS using gfx-portability

#35

Post by mikhailt » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 2:48 PM UTC

kvark wrote: post #34

mikhailt wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw MoltenVK under KhronosGroup control here, which led to my confusion once more: https://github.com/KhronosGroup/MoltenVK And yea, the messaging is confusing because of this line on their site: > As a first deliverable from the Vulkan Portability Initiative, Khronos members Valve, LunarG, and The Brenwill Workshop have released a collection of free and open source set of tools, SDKs, and runtime libraries to enab…

KhronosGroup github organization may be hosting projects of Khronos members that align with Khronos mission, but they aren't necessary the deliverables of any working groups and thus can't be official/sponsored. > Khronos members Valve, LunarG, and The Brenwill Workshop have released It's like saying "W3C members Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp have released ..." :D Basically, Valve released something that they want to…

Cool, thanks for the details.