Secessio plebis • Hacker News Board

Re: Secessio plebis

#51

Post by freehunter » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 1:04 PM UTC

person_of_color wrote: post #6

If only SW engineer "plebs" could band together and strike to demand recognition of their profession like doctors and lawyer

The constant fear is that if you did that, you would then need to be licensed before you can create software, with a formal education structure and possibly limitations on how many software engineers could be educated in a year like with doctors. This would also likely bring down heavy regulatory structures onto the profession, where a programmer could be "disbarred" or have their license revoked if they wrote bad code, or would have to get malpractice insurance in case their code hurt someone or cost companies extra money. There are arguments in favor of a software engineering license, but there are arguments against it as well.

I work in the information security industry and there are constant talks about making a "security license". Some places actually required security engineers be licensed as private detectives. In a career where there is a critical lack of good applicants to fill the immense number of jobs, this is devastating to any efforts to try to fill the open security positions.

Re: Secessio plebis

#52

Post by jacobush » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 1:15 PM UTC

boomboomsubban wrote: post #47

bb101 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Arabs had translated many Greek and Roman works into Arabic, and then these were translated back into Latin by monks hundreds of years later during the time of the crusades. So not the original works, but not anecdotal either. https://aeon.co/ideas/arabic-translators-did-far-more-than-j... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_of_the_Greek_Clas...

You're talking about events nearly a millennium after the ones being discussed. Rome had no great influence in 389 BC, and it's incredibly unlikely that the Persians maintained copies of those records.

Is your OP speaking of BC? Not clear to me, total ignoramus.

Re: Secessio plebis

#53

Post by nightcracker » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 1:19 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #51

person_of_color wrote: post #6

If only SW engineer "plebs" could band together and strike to demand recognition of their profession like doctors and lawyer

The constant fear is that if you did that, you would then need to be licensed before you can create software, with a formal education structure and possibly limitations on how many software engineers could be educated in a year like with doctors. This would also likely bring down heavy regulatory structures onto the profession, where a programmer could be "disbarred" or have their license revoked if they wrote bad co…

In my experience a formal education also has little to no correlation to programmer quality.

All of the best programmers I know are self-taught.

Re: Secessio plebis

#54

Post by viraptor » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 1:43 PM UTC

golergka wrote: post #36

pjc50 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Working for intelligence saves civilian lives Well, apart from all those airstrikes on schoolbuses.

You have to look at the net result. If you're 50% certain that a schoolbus with 30 children has a leader of a terrorist cell that will on average perform one attack with ~100 casualties 1-2 times a year, and otherwise this terrorist is expected to have a life expectancy of 3-5 years, and without him this cell has a 60-70% probability of disintegrating, it's a very clear cut case. I don't personally work in intelligen…

This is as contrived as the trolley problem. You present two choices while there are so many more. We're talking about a bus here, not a secret getaway car with special camouflage - it will go fairly slowly and people will just walk out, most likely on the side of a street.

Re: Secessio plebis

#55

Post by 0xcde4c3db » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 1:47 PM UTC

John_KZ wrote: post #11

I think it's terrifying how sooner than later the plebians won't even have that miniscule amount of power because all the work that needs to be done will be automated with machines they have no control over.

That sounds like a recipe for a true neo-Luddite movement (as opposed to the more common hyperbolic use of the term Luddite to mean someone who engages with technology less than we might expect).

Re: Secessio plebis

#56

Post by bhritchie » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 1:53 PM UTC

I was just reading a history of the Hellenistic world, and something like this seems to have been common in towns in Ptolemaic Egypt, and functioned as the main check on otherwise rapacious taxation.

Re: Secessio plebis

#57

Post by boomboomsubban » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 2:28 PM UTC

jacobush wrote: post #52

boomboomsubban wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking about events nearly a millennium after the ones being discussed. Rome had no great influence in 389 BC, and it's incredibly unlikely that the Persians maintained copies of those records.

Is your OP speaking of BC? Not clear to me, total ignoramus.

Yes, it is written about the article linked.

Re: Secessio plebis

#58

Post by mreome » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 4:46 PM UTC

Angostura wrote: post #25

dmurray wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last garbage workers strike in New York lasted two weeks before the city caved.

But did it have any actual effect on the modern-day equivalent of the patricians? I imagine they just took a private jet to Monaco until it blew over.

Who drove them to the airport, loaded their luggage, prepared the in-flight meals, fueled up the jet, and flew it?

Re: Secessio plebis

#59

Post by dev_dull » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 5:21 PM UTC

person_of_color wrote: post #6

If only SW engineer "plebs" could band together and strike to demand recognition of their profession like doctors and lawyer

We get free food and some of the best pay in the world for such a small amount of necessary education. What is it that you really want? Or are you lashing out at the fact that in this world there are wealthier people than yourself making money off your labor?

Re: Secessio plebis

#60

Post by monetus » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 5:35 PM UTC

woodruffw wrote: post #49

monetus wrote: post #16

On the other side of the coin, the machinations to divide and defeat the interests of the plebeians were horribly fascinating. Beware the promises of a Drusus. In my mind, the failures of the gracchiae seem to echo for hundreds of years until Rome itself was sacked. Granted, the gracchiae were fighting for the latins, but the lack of compassion shown to visigoths undoubtedly played a role in the impetus behind their…

I'll be that guy: Gracchi is already plural (-ī is the plural masculine nominative for the singular Gracchus). You can also see in in their gens : they're each Sempronius, so the family is gens Sempronii ("the Sempronius clan", "the family of the Semproniuses").

Ya that's what I thought too, but I heard a few people say gracchiae and just followed the leader, wondering why the name turned feminine. You think gracchiae could be referring to the whole lineage or something?