Fitbit's 150B hours of heart data • Hacker News Board

Re: Fitbit's 150B hours of heart data

#61

Post by Tharkun » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 12:59 PM UTC

Engineering-MD wrote: post #45

Tharkun wrote: post #2

A low (R)HR isn't always indicative of good health. High blood pressure can cause your HR to drop, for instance. I hope they're actively researching their data set, I suspect we can learn a lot from it. They might even be able to detect certain arrhythmias, though that can't be easy with just an optical sensor which only reads HR. With a user base this large, I'm sure people have died while wearing their fitbit. Mayb…

While you are correct, it’s not normally seen as an indicator of high blood pressure. The larger concern would be an arrhythmia or a form of heart block. These are definitely dangerous, but usually concern is only raised if symptomatic or the heart rate is below 50. Even in this case, a heart rate below 50 can be normal in very athletic people.

Oh yes, you're absolute right. I'm not saying that a a HR below 60 is abnormal or bad. I'm just saying that "low = good" isn't automatically true. AFAIK devices like fitbit have no indication of blood pressure (or heart block or certain kinds of arrhythmias), so they can't really make this bold claim.

Re: Fitbit's 150B hours of heart data

#62

Post by justaguyhere » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 1:00 PM UTC

rawoke083600 wrote: post #3

Now if only it were accurate...

This is just one data point, but still...

Yesterday, my fitbit shows me I had walked 800 steps - I wasn't wearing it and it was just lying there on my desk. Bought it last Christmas, so it is not even a year old.

I didn't even bother testing the heart rate data

Re: Fitbit's 150B hours of heart data

#63

Post by faitswulff » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 1:02 PM UTC

> And as for Pakistan, with the worst activity level and a sky-high RHR — get with it, people!

This is...insensitive, to say the least.

Re: Fitbit's 150B hours of heart data

#64

Post by sulam » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 1:07 PM UTC

amaccuish wrote: post #16

I rather wish they'd focus on making sync more reliable. All my immediate family have Fitbits and no one's syncs reliably.

We are actively working very hard on this! Unfortunately it’s the typical tech story — the system that worked well over 10 years ago isn’t working as well today and it’s a big project to replace it. We have a whole team of very experienced engineers who are working to improve it for all our devices.

Re: Fitbit's 150B hours of heart data

#65

Post by justaguyhere » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 1:09 PM UTC

mscasts wrote: post #36

While I am a privacy advocate in most aspects, I fail to see how my basic health data like HR, weight etc is going to be used against me except for bad marketing practices. If I talk ill about some political ideologies and that gets stored until some evil dictator gets in power, that I can get. But who is going to put me in prison for having a high heart rate? The benefits in the other hand is great. I get to see and…

While I am a privacy advocate in most aspects

I guess you are answering your own question.

Whether our data is going to an evil dictator or a saint is not the first question. The first question is, do we know where it is going? Were we explicitly told, did we knowingly and willingly give permission (not tricked, as a footnote in 8 point font in a 50 page terms and conditions agreement) to use our data - that should be our first question. If that is not satisfactorily answered (not just this case), then the rest of the questions don't matter as much.

Even if the data collector's intentions are 100% pure (it never is) and it is used for the good of humanity (it never is) etc etc, it is still extremely offensive to take someone's most intimate data without them knowing and explicitly authorizing to do so. Even after that, there should be periodic independent audits just to make sure the data collectors hold their end of the bargain.

Re: Fitbit's 150B hours of heart data

#66

Post by brlewis » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 1:11 PM UTC

daniel_iversen wrote: post #26

Zarath wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world may be better off, but certainly not because they massively collect biometric data, but because their product encourages exercise.

Both right? You may not like it but which research wouldn’t benefit from a large useful dataset? And to the post above re: assuming consent, sure maybe they should make it crystal clear up front how they’ll use your data.

How would you suggest making it clear up front? Providing a link to a privacy policy and making people check a box saying they've read it?

Re: Fitbit's 150B hours of heart data

#67

Post by Broken_Hippo » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 1:13 PM UTC

daniel_iversen wrote: post #11

saagarjha wrote: post #4

> modern smartwatches and fitness bands can track your pulse continuously, day and night, for months. Imagine what you could learn if you collected all that data from tens of millions of people! Please no. Surely nobody thought collecting health data from all their users was a good idea, right? > That’s exactly what Fitbit (FIT) has done. It has now logged 150 billion hours’ worth of heart-rate data. From tens of mil…

This large scale data analytics is probable the best (or at least usually fastest) way to solve the worlds big health challenges I would guess. Nobody forced anyone to wear a smart watch or health tracker. I for one thinks the world is slightly better off because of companies like Fitbit!

* Nobody forced anyone to wear a smart watch or health tracker.*

Yes... and no. Don't folks get insurance premium discounts for using one of these things? If you are poor and having trouble putting food on the table, it isn't much of an actual choice.

Re: Fitbit's 150B hours of heart data

#68

Post by sulam » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 1:13 PM UTC

justaguyhere wrote: post #62

rawoke083600 wrote: post #3

Now if only it were accurate...

This is just one data point, but still... Yesterday, my fitbit shows me I had walked 800 steps - I wasn't wearing it and it was just lying there on my desk. Bought it last Christmas, so it is not even a year old. I didn't even bother testing the heart rate data

That’s really odd. I can’t talk about accuracy, but getting steps while it’s literally sitting on a desk would be novel in my experience. Do you have mobile track enabled (the feature where we can use the phone’s accelerometer to try and record steps)?

You should also try reaching out to customer support, we invest very heavily in being able to debug it when things go weird.

Re: Fitbit's 150B hours of heart data

#69

Post by todd8 » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 1:13 PM UTC

executesorder66 wrote: post #52

mscasts wrote: post #36

While I am a privacy advocate in most aspects, I fail to see how my basic health data like HR, weight etc is going to be used against me except for bad marketing practices. If I talk ill about some political ideologies and that gets stored until some evil dictator gets in power, that I can get. But who is going to put me in prison for having a high heart rate? The benefits in the other hand is great. I get to see and…

> health data like HR, weight etc is going to be used against me except for bad marketing practices You could pay more for health and life insurance.

One problem facing insurance companies is the asymmetric information between buyer and seller. Should we be able to keep our age secret when buying life insurance? How about sex or weight?

My teenage son is in all likelihood a less safe driver than the average teenage woman, should a woman pay the same for her insurance as the generally more reckless man?

With regard to our health information, should we be keeping information from our insurance companies? Would it be right to lie about it? If not then should we hiding it. It seems that in this case we are taking advantage of others that will inevitable have to pay higher premiums to cover costs of those that are less honest about their health.

I bought a house recently. The owner didn’t disclose a crack in the slab. They had covered it with a recent floor covering that fooled both me and the inspector. Is that okay? Isn’t this similar to trying to keep a life insuance company from realizing that one has a significant risk say of a heart attack?

I don’t like companies collecting data on me, so if Fitbit does this I would hope that there was a way to opt out; nevertheless, I feel that we shouldn’t expect private insurance companies to charge us all the same. This leaves many people in circumstances where insuance would be unobtainable—a big problem where government could play an important role in a just solution.

Re: Fitbit's 150B hours of heart data

#70

Post by finnjohnsen2 » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 1:17 PM UTC

I love this.

I was most surprised by the "Women vs. men, young vs. old". To learn that HR gets lower with age. Since old people die a lot. All of them actually.

Feels like a paradox since lower HR is associated with being healthy - and the rest of the graphs seems to suggest so.