I think it's terrifying how sooner than later the plebians won't even have that miniscule amount of power because all the work that needs to be done will be automated with machines they have no control over.
Secessio plebis
11–20 of 64 posts
Re: Secessio plebis
#12This is a very interesting social phenomena and I'm glad someone randomly linked to it since I never heard of it.
I imagine the effectiveness of it stood in the fact that cities were self-sufficient. Since cities are no longer self-sufficient, a protest like this in the modern age would be meaningless. All the plebs of New York could leave the city and nothing would change, except that some patrician would get richer by exploiting the plebe that chose to partake in this (or punish it).
Re: Secessio plebis
#13If only SW engineer "plebs" could band together and strike to demand recognition of their profession like doctors and lawyer
Yeah, it is interesting how that didn't happen at Theranos or Google (with the "killer drones" recently). For the former case, I'd like to refer to the book Bad Blood. For the latter, 12 people from Google resigned over that issue. The massive privacy issues occurring, Uber debacle, NSA debacle, or how about Microsoft in the '90s? IBM before that? I guess the tech sector workers get divide & conqueror-ed.
> or Google (with the "killer drones" recently)
It's because you assume that every software engineer has the same political opinion as you on that matter. In reality, there are people who could consider working on "killer drones" their patriotic duty and are ready to accept low compensation just because they feel they make the world a better place doing it instead of just selling ads. I know such people personally both from US and other countries as well, eager to work for military and intelligence agencies of their respective countries, from NSA to 8200 to FIS.
You may not agree with their political opinions and I respect that, but denying existence of such people is just plain stupid.
Re: Secessio plebis
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, it is interesting how that didn't happen at Theranos or Google (with the "killer drones" recently). For the former case, I'd like to refer to the book Bad Blood. For the latter, 12 people from Google resigned over that issue. The massive privacy issues occurring, Uber debacle, NSA debacle, or how about Microsoft in the '90s? IBM before that? I guess the tech sector workers get divide & conqueror-ed.
> or Google (with the "killer drones" recently) It's because you assume that every software engineer has the same political opinion as you on that matter. In reality, there are people who could consider working on "killer drones" their patriotic duty and are ready to accept low compensation just because they feel they make the world a better place doing it instead of just selling ads. I know such people personally bo…
I do sincerely hope, wish, and ultimately assume [1] that intelligent people (which is what I'd find fair to describe the people at Google who were supposed to work on "killer drones") do have high ethical standards. Of unintelligent people, its less surprising.
I don't deny the existence of people who don't have the same ethical standard as me though. I never claimed or argued those people did or did not exist at Google; all I was saying is that "only" 12 resigned. Who knows how big that team was.
[1] Else I get rather negative with my faith in humanity...
Re: Secessio plebis
#15I think it's terrifying how sooner than later the plebians won't even have that miniscule amount of power because all the work that needs to be done will be automated with machines they have no control over.
Capitalism is basically over at that point when there's like 80% unemployment because most jobs are automated.
The idea of your survival based on a job is a terrible idea anyway.
I can't wait until this happens because then people will get serious about income inequality and have to figure out how to properly distribute the wealth that the machines create.
Re: Secessio plebis
#16On the other side of the coin, the machinations to divide and defeat the interests of the plebeians were horribly fascinating. Beware the promises of a Drusus.
In my mind, the failures of the gracchiae seem to echo for hundreds of years until Rome itself was sacked. Granted, the gracchiae were fighting for the latins, but the lack of compassion shown to visigoths undoubtedly played a role in the impetus behind their uprising.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Livius_Drusus_(consul)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaius_Gracchus#Senatorial_Resp...
Re: Secessio plebis
#17This is a very interesting social phenomena and I'm glad someone randomly linked to it since I never heard of it. I imagine the effectiveness of it stood in the fact that cities were self-sufficient. Since cities are no longer self-sufficient, a protest like this in the modern age would be meaningless. All the plebs of New York could leave the city and nothing would change, except that some patrician would get richer…
>I'm glad someone randomly linked to it since I never heard of it.
Didn't know there was hn.postRandomLink() feature. I would have used it. :)
Re: Secessio plebis
#18This is a very interesting social phenomena and I'm glad someone randomly linked to it since I never heard of it. I imagine the effectiveness of it stood in the fact that cities were self-sufficient. Since cities are no longer self-sufficient, a protest like this in the modern age would be meaningless. All the plebs of New York could leave the city and nothing would change, except that some patrician would get richer…
The last garbage workers strike in New York lasted two weeks before the city caved.
Re: Secessio plebis
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
> or Google (with the "killer drones" recently) It's because you assume that every software engineer has the same political opinion as you on that matter. In reality, there are people who could consider working on "killer drones" their patriotic duty and are ready to accept low compensation just because they feel they make the world a better place doing it instead of just selling ads. I know such people personally bo…
I do sincerely hope, wish, and ultimately assume [1] that intelligent people (which is what I'd find fair to describe the people at Google who were supposed to work on "killer drones") do have high ethical standards. Of unintelligent people, its less surprising. I don't deny the existence of people who don't have the same ethical standard as me though. I never claimed or argued those people did or did not exist at Go…
> high ethical standards
Ethical standards are do not lie on a single dimension and words "high" and "low" don't sufficiently describe them. Ethics and morality is a complicated mess of game theory, neuroscience, evolutionary biology and logic. The same people that you implicitly describe as having "low" ethical standards are making that decision contrary to their immediate self-interest, out of very noble considerations, thinking about their friends and family, their children, their countrymen and the world. It's just their logic is very different from yours.
Re: Secessio plebis
#20I think it's terrifying how sooner than later the plebians won't even have that miniscule amount of power because all the work that needs to be done will be automated with machines they have no control over.
Capitalism is basically over at that point when there's like 80% unemployment because most jobs are automated. The idea of your survival based on a job is a terrible idea anyway. I can't wait until this happens because then people will get serious about income inequality and have to figure out how to properly distribute the wealth that the machines create.
One can dream.. But We are talking in the incorrect place.
A thread about steve jobs or the new Iphone will get 500 replies, not this one