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Australia Wants to Take Government Surveillance to the Next Level

nytimes.com

41–50 of 100 posts

Re: Australia Wants to Take Government Surveillance to the Next Level

#41
post #15
post #7

Digital Rights Watch has more information and a submission system to help people write their feedback to the government: https://digitalrightswatch.org.au/2018/08/19/defend-encrypti...

What the parent doesn't explicitly mention is that there is a government inquiry open RIGHT NOW . You have to get your submissions in by 10th of September (5 days time). Every Australian here needs to make a submission (please). The parent's link, allows you to post a boilerplate submission with a single click. Far better to write and email your own submission, as form letters tend to get aggregated into one during e…

that was really helpful, thank you. Feedback submitted

Re: Australia Wants to Take Government Surveillance to the Next Level

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without knowing much about the Australian system, I suspect the protections in the Constitution are equivalent, but not those in "common law and other legislation". In the US, the protections in the Constitution + Bill of Rights are considered much more fundamental than our common law and other legislation because it requires an amendment to override those protections, and amendments require an enormous level of nati…

> I suspect the protections in the Constitution are equivalent, No, Australia has nothing like the Bill of rights, even if some bits of the constitution cover the same ground very partially. To give a flavour of this, our constitution prohibits an established church using language very similar to the US 1st Amendment. But the silence about freedom of speech is deafening. In the '90s the High Court decided there had t…

When I said "equivalent", I didn't mean in the sense of having the same protections in the Constitution, but rather that in the sense that its protections are equivalently difficult to amend as those in the Bill of Rights.

Re: Australia Wants to Take Government Surveillance to the Next Level

#43

The headline is a little misleading. It's much more terrifying than that. It isn't just Australia. It is the US, Australia, Canada, UK, and New Zealand all together (known as the "Five Eyes")[1]. Australia is just the country that put the memo together. > The "Five Eyes", often abbreviated as "FVEY", refer to an intelligence alliance comprising Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the United States.…

In typical fashion, one country takes the lead (also happens with IP rights ratchets), and if/when it pans out, the others "follow that example" / harmonize / pick your particular bureaucratic mechanism and terminology.

Re: Australia Wants to Take Government Surveillance to the Next Level

#44
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US bill of rights doesnt define the rights. The bill of rights calls out special rights that the govt shall not touch. The rights are granted to us by our creator aka natural law. The same law used to declare our independence from the crown and an inherent part of the fabric of the US. Not sure if this is clearly stated yet.

The Constitution and Declaration of Independence are legal documents setting out the foundations of a government and a nationstate, not some divine text from a higher power. The founding fathers were not a group of infallible prophets.

No, they weren't infallible. They were however, experienced in human nature and saw tyranny/ death in ways you only imagine. Ignoring that experience dooms us to repeat the problems.

Assuming your intellect is superior to that which you cannot measure is also a common failure among smart folks. I am sure you dont fall prey to that trap.

Re: Australia Wants to Take Government Surveillance to the Next Level

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suspect the protections in the Constitution are equivalent, No, Australia has nothing like the Bill of rights, even if some bits of the constitution cover the same ground very partially. To give a flavour of this, our constitution prohibits an established church using language very similar to the US 1st Amendment. But the silence about freedom of speech is deafening. In the '90s the High Court decided there had t…

When I said "equivalent", I didn't mean in the sense of having the same protections in the Constitution, but rather that in the sense that its protections are equivalently difficult to amend as those in the Bill of Rights.

[deleted]

Re: Australia Wants to Take Government Surveillance to the Next Level

#46
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US bill of rights doesnt define the rights. The bill of rights calls out special rights that the govt shall not touch. The rights are granted to us by our creator aka natural law. The same law used to declare our independence from the crown and an inherent part of the fabric of the US. Not sure if this is clearly stated yet.

The Constitution and Declaration of Independence are legal documents setting out the foundations of a government and a nationstate, not some divine text from a higher power. The founding fathers were not a group of infallible prophets.

That’s not what geggam is saying. The underlying philosophy of the Bill of Rights as stated by the founders/framers is that the rights are “natural” rights which all are imbued at birth, and that the rights listed are not exhaustive but merely representative. In fact, the founders were wary of a Bill of Rights specifically because by enumerating some of them the list might be seen as complete.

But the notion is that governments do not “grant” these rights, and likewise government can never infringe upon god given rights.

Re: Australia Wants to Take Government Surveillance to the Next Level

#47
This method won't work for most 'after the event' scenarios, such as the San Bernadino case, because the subjects are often deceased, and so unlikely to be updating the software on their phones or computers, so it can only possibly apply "upon suspicion". ie. pre-crime...

This opens up questions as to how someone becomes 'suspicious' if their communication is already encrypted. And if they're already a person of interest, how many myriad other ways do they have of surveilling them or checking out their activities? Terrorist attacks require non-electronic items that have to be purchased, stored, and constructed in non-electronic places. There are existing ways to surveil people, under warrant. GPS trackers, phone records, bank statements, listening devices, watching devices, IMSI catchers, metadata (which Australia has legislated must be kept by ISP's for a couple of years).

This new legislation feels like a LOT of effort for a very small percentage return over and above those things I've already listed, especially considering:

- How long would it take to develop and deploy a targetted version of a program?

- What's the likelihood of the target updating their program during the useful window of time?

- Is this timeframe going to be of use to law enforcement?

- If the timeframe is justified, what's the time limit? Is 'suspect' going to have their comms intercepted for the foreseeable future? At what point is the well deemed to be dry?

- At what point does warranted surveillance become government harassment?

What this looks like from the outside is more psychology than technology:

- Hey Terrorists, we can do these things so, you know, re-think your life's direction

- Chilling effects: encourage paranoia, discourage dissent, even discourage disagreement

Re: Australia Wants to Take Government Surveillance to the Next Level

#49

For those that would like more reading here is the explanatory bill: https://bit.ly/2NR4tTh Three important things to note technical assistance requests, technical assistance notice and technical capability notice.

They keep insisting they're not asking for backdoors. Here's what the explanatory bill says: The type of assistance that may be requested or required under the above powers include (amongst other things): * Removing a form of electronic protection applied by the provider, if the provider has an existing capability to remove this protection. * Providing technical information like the design specifications of a device…

the bill is so brazen, I keep wondering if they mean for it to not pass. Like they put it out there just to appease some organisation that they are 'at least trying'. Hopefully it doesn't backfire a'la Brexit

Re: Australia Wants to Take Government Surveillance to the Next Level

#50
post #7

Digital Rights Watch has more information and a submission system to help people write their feedback to the government: https://digitalrightswatch.org.au/2018/08/19/defend-encrypti...

This video they made is absolutely hilarious, and shows just how un-hilarious and fucked up these proposed changes are: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW-OMR-iWOE

"Reasonable and Appropriate" indeed. Funny how satirical pieces like these oft act as the best ways for the general public to understand the scope of proposed changes by a government (or lobbying efforts by companies or NGOs) - see also John Oliver, Colbert, et al.
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