Rocket woman: How to cook curry and get a spacecraft into Mars orbit • Hacker News Board

Re: Rocket woman: How to cook curry and get a spacecraft into Mars orbit

#31

Post by horsecaptin » Tue, Sep 04, 2018, 8:46 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #7

madengr wrote: post #3

I’d think an engineer and surgeon could hire a housemaid to help out with the cooking. In the USA, it’d be a household income of > $600k. I saw a documentary a few years ago. The woman cooked breakfast, then after the husband left, immediately started lunch. Brought lunch to the husband in a stacked lunch-pail, them immediately started with dinner. They cooked all day; crazy. Of course Indian food takes a long time t…

"Could financially" doesn't necessarily mean it's socially acceptable.

It is socially acceptable in India to hire help for cooking and cleaning. It is much less socially acceptable in India to hire help raising the kids.

Re: Rocket woman: How to cook curry and get a spacecraft into Mars orbit

#32

Post by bluGill » Tue, Sep 04, 2018, 8:49 PM UTC

windows_tips wrote: post #27

as1mov wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in the Indian tech industry (a large service based company in the past and some small-ish startups), so perhaps I can share some insights on this topic. The reason for the somewhat balanced gender ratio here is much more mundane than what these articles would make you believe. In India, engineering is one of the "default" career paths for most poor/middle class families children for leading a stable life. It's…

Is it possible to earn enough in an acceptable career to then later pursue what one would like to?

Is it possible to earn enough in the unacceptable careers?

Engineering, medicine, business covers most choices that pay well, and there is demand. Business in particular is a catch-all which will let you get into any industry that pays well.

Of course there are niches outside of them that need a few smart educated people, but they are niches that can only take support a few people and get saturated easily. We have "starving artist" as an expression in English for a reason: there are a lot of great artists that will never really earn enough for more than the cheapest food and shelter with nothing else left over. (there is nothing wrong with such a lifestyle if you are not in my family - if you are in my family we want better for you, and in particular the grandchildren which your life will not support)

Re: Rocket woman: How to cook curry and get a spacecraft into Mars orbit

#33

Post by bluGill » Tue, Sep 04, 2018, 8:52 PM UTC

nonamechicken wrote: post #18

DoreenMichele wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA, parents don't typically arrange an adult daughter's marriage without asking her what she thinks either. (She also was living with extended family, a thing Americans tend to not do either. In America, we default to the nuclear family. When it began with saying she was cooking for 8 people, I assumed she had many children. Not so.) Also, she liked to cook and if you are a woman and have a career, doing thin…

>In the USA, parents don't typically arrange an adult daughter's marriage without asking her what she thinks either. Same in India also. Arranged marriage doesn't mean forced marriage. It's unfortunate people have this perception. Even in arranged marriage, men and women agree for marriage only if they are ok.

At least the ones I have talked to understand that you don't refuse. It might be possible, but it isn't done.

Of course India is a big country with a lot of people. Their culture is not completely shared. To state anything in absolute terms is probably wrong.

Re: Rocket woman: How to cook curry and get a spacecraft into Mars orbit

#34

Post by et-al » Tue, Sep 04, 2018, 9:06 PM UTC

as1mov wrote: post #26

nonamechicken wrote: post #20

Related: Why women in Stem may be better off working in India and Latin America: https://www.theguardian.com/guardian-professional/2015/jun/2... What India Can Teach Silicon Valley About Its Gender Problem: https://www.wired.com/2014/08/silicon-valley-sexism/ India and Italy have the highest percentage of female developers: https://blog.hackerrank.com/which-countries-have-the-most-sk...

I work in the Indian tech industry (a large service based company in the past and some small-ish startups), so perhaps I can share some insights on this topic. The reason for the somewhat balanced gender ratio here is much more mundane than what these articles would make you believe. In India, engineering is one of the "default" career paths for most poor/middle class families children for leading a stable life. It's…

> Programming/Computers doesn't mean anything to them, it's just a day job which helps them provide for themselves. This is the main differentiation between the US/European workforce and ours.

How is this not the case for software devs in the States? There's plenty of people who joined dev bootcamps because of the possibility of a six-figure salary. Considering how financially-driven many developers in the Bay Area are, I think their interests aren't too different from our Indian compatriots. We're all looking for a way to pay rent, hopefully buy a house, and pursue interests outside of work.

Re: Rocket woman: How to cook curry and get a spacecraft into Mars orbit

#35

Post by kaitai » Tue, Sep 04, 2018, 9:56 PM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #10

madengr wrote: post #3

I’d think an engineer and surgeon could hire a housemaid to help out with the cooking. In the USA, it’d be a household income of > $600k. I saw a documentary a few years ago. The woman cooked breakfast, then after the husband left, immediately started lunch. Brought lunch to the husband in a stacked lunch-pail, them immediately started with dinner. They cooked all day; crazy. Of course Indian food takes a long time t…

In the USA, parents don't typically arrange an adult daughter's marriage without asking her what she thinks either. (She also was living with extended family, a thing Americans tend to not do either. In America, we default to the nuclear family. When it began with saying she was cooking for 8 people, I assumed she had many children. Not so.) Also, she liked to cook and if you are a woman and have a career, doing thin…

I usually find a lot to agree with in your posts, but this time I want to push back on arranged marriage = forced marriage. That's just false.

Also want to push back a bit on having kids and then "just hiring other people to do everything for them". Many cultures have extended family, grandparents, other wives, other adults/older children do child care. The nuclear model is not the norm in the world or in history and we should examine that. Economics in India are pretty different, and it's seen as a responsibility to the community to employ people as cooks/maids/drivers/nannies. If you don't hire people and you can, you're a selfish person not contributing to the welfare of your community. Americans hire help to free up time for work; it's not the same aesthetic in India. Moreover, the number of full-time dads is still disappointingly low, though it isn't brought up when we talk about SpaceX or NASA. Thanks, though, for acknowledging that not all children are planned and that options for planning are eroding.

Re: Rocket woman: How to cook curry and get a spacecraft into Mars orbit

#36

Post by DoreenMichele » Tue, Sep 04, 2018, 10:24 PM UTC

kaitai wrote: post #35

DoreenMichele wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA, parents don't typically arrange an adult daughter's marriage without asking her what she thinks either. (She also was living with extended family, a thing Americans tend to not do either. In America, we default to the nuclear family. When it began with saying she was cooking for 8 people, I assumed she had many children. Not so.) Also, she liked to cook and if you are a woman and have a career, doing thin…

I usually find a lot to agree with in your posts, but this time I want to push back on arranged marriage = forced marriage. That's just false. Also want to push back a bit on having kids and then "just hiring other people to do everything for them". Many cultures have extended family, grandparents, other wives, other adults/older children do child care. The nuclear model is not the norm in the world or in history and…

I usually find a lot to agree with in your posts, but this time I want to push back on arranged marriage = forced marriage. That's just false.

For the record, I upvoted the other comment that made this same point (as well as your comment). I considered thanking them, but long history suggests such comments by me go weird and problematic places. I don't know a fix for that, so I sometimes upvote as my only expression of gratitude for a good contribution to the discussion.

Many cultures have extended family, grandparents, other wives, other adults/older children do child care.

In my eyes, that is completely different from just hiring help.

FWIW, when my brother got custody of his infant son during his divorce, my father officially retired and stayed home with the child while my brother and mother continued working. My father never changed a single diaper for any of his own kids. I think he was in his 60s when he learned to change a diaper so he could provide childcare for his grandchild.

I have my reservations about the two career couple model that is promoted by so many people. It is promoted as a women's equality thing, but the reality is that those children are typically being raised by a woman, just not their own mother. It actually creates a class divide if you really think about it.

I don't know the solution, but we need to spend more time figuring out how to resolve this conflict without shortchanging some demographic. I don't see that issue being discussed enough.

Thank you for your comment. I think you misread part of mine, but if others also misread it, it's good to get that information out there.

Best.

Re: Rocket woman: How to cook curry and get a spacecraft into Mars orbit

#37

Post by volkadav » Tue, Sep 04, 2018, 10:54 PM UTC

First parsed this headline as cooking a curry powerful enough to send a spacecraft into a Mars orbit, haha! "Wow, that's a strong curry, what do you spice with?" "... Hydrazine."

Re: Rocket woman: How to cook curry and get a spacecraft into Mars orbit

#38

Post by maxxxxx » Tue, Sep 04, 2018, 10:56 PM UTC

as1mov wrote: post #26

nonamechicken wrote: post #20

Related: Why women in Stem may be better off working in India and Latin America: https://www.theguardian.com/guardian-professional/2015/jun/2... What India Can Teach Silicon Valley About Its Gender Problem: https://www.wired.com/2014/08/silicon-valley-sexism/ India and Italy have the highest percentage of female developers: https://blog.hackerrank.com/which-countries-have-the-most-sk...

I work in the Indian tech industry (a large service based company in the past and some small-ish startups), so perhaps I can share some insights on this topic. The reason for the somewhat balanced gender ratio here is much more mundane than what these articles would make you believe. In India, engineering is one of the "default" career paths for most poor/middle class families children for leading a stable life. It's…

" Programming/Computers doesn't mean anything to them, it's just a day job which helps them provide for themselves. "

That would explain the attitude of a lot of workers at the big offshoring companies.

Re: Rocket woman: How to cook curry and get a spacecraft into Mars orbit

#39

Post by shrikant » Tue, Sep 04, 2018, 11:05 PM UTC

madengr wrote: post #3

I’d think an engineer and surgeon could hire a housemaid to help out with the cooking. In the USA, it’d be a household income of > $600k. I saw a documentary a few years ago. The woman cooked breakfast, then after the husband left, immediately started lunch. Brought lunch to the husband in a stacked lunch-pail, them immediately started with dinner. They cooked all day; crazy. Of course Indian food takes a long time t…

3 hours? I think it might be matter of practice. It takes my partner and I about 30-40 mins to cook a full Indian dinner for the two of us from scratch, these days.

I remember it used to take about 80-90 mins when we were less coordinated in the kitchen, but nowadays we've got a pretty smooth supply chain going!

Re: Rocket woman: How to cook curry and get a spacecraft into Mars orbit

#40

Post by wtmt » Tue, Sep 04, 2018, 11:41 PM UTC

nonamechicken wrote: post #18

DoreenMichele wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA, parents don't typically arrange an adult daughter's marriage without asking her what she thinks either. (She also was living with extended family, a thing Americans tend to not do either. In America, we default to the nuclear family. When it began with saying she was cooking for 8 people, I assumed she had many children. Not so.) Also, she liked to cook and if you are a woman and have a career, doing thin…

>In the USA, parents don't typically arrange an adult daughter's marriage without asking her what she thinks either. Same in India also. Arranged marriage doesn't mean forced marriage. It's unfortunate people have this perception. Even in arranged marriage, men and women agree for marriage only if they are ok.

> Arranged marriage doesn't mean forced marriage. It's unfortunate people have this perception. Even in arranged marriage, men and women agree for marriage only if they are ok.

I don't understand this indignation followed by a generalization. For the record, I'm Indian and have lived for decades here. What you say may probably be true in urban India, depending on the family, education levels of the woman and the parents, economic class, religion, caste and several other factors. But even in urban India, adult women don't have much say in refusing to marry a man whom their parents have decided is the best match. If you look at rural India, it's likely a lot worse.

A woman agreeing to marry a man doesn't mean that she's voluntarily choosing to do so after doing her own "due diligence" and checking if this match would support the kind of life she desires or dreams to lead.

Most of the time, the man and woman get to talk to each other for a very short while, almost like a job interview, after which they're expected to decide on the "yes" or "no", if such a choice is even available. The fact that divorce is looked at as a disgusting matter combined with this decision making process is a big bummer. But I will give credit to the social support structure to keeping things running (though sometimes to the detriment of individuals).

The same matter is a lot different for the men involved. As with many other instances and places around the world, the men do have more freedom and choice.

P.S.: For a funny take on marriages in India, watch this movie from 1998 called "Hyderabad Blues". [1] Most of it still holds true now.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyderabad_Blues