Princess Alice disaster: The Thames' 650 forgotten dead
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Re: Princess Alice disaster: The Thames' 650 forgotten dead
#2Reason I posted this to HN, not only because it was interesting, but having recently finished watching Ripper Street, there's a character in that show who's backstory relates to this.
Re: Princess Alice disaster: The Thames' 650 forgotten dead
#3see also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS_General_Slocum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Eastland
Current passenger ship safety regulations are very much written in blood.
Re: Princess Alice disaster: The Thames' 650 forgotten dead
#4Some original articles -
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/220442169
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/107939744
> Is sewage deadly?
No, the Thames back then would have been the same as many rivers in many poorer countries today. Many of these rivers are scavenged, not without issue, but a quick dunk isn't going to have immediately killed anyone. Author needs to travel more, oldie England is still alive and kicking around the world.
Re: Princess Alice disaster: The Thames' 650 forgotten dead
#5see also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS_General_Slocum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Eastland Current passenger ship safety regulations are very much written in blood.
More recently in the Thames, the Marchioness.
Re: Princess Alice disaster: The Thames' 650 forgotten dead
#6A more recent collision
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/pleasure-boat-disaster...
I think I remember it appearing in a fictional work as well or being alluded to
Re: Princess Alice disaster: The Thames' 650 forgotten dead
#7Some original articles - https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/220442169 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/107939744 > Is sewage deadly? No, the Thames back then would have been the same as many rivers in many poorer countries today. Many of these rivers are scavenged, not without issue, but a quick dunk isn't going to have immediately killed anyone. Author needs to travel more, oldie England is still a…
Just how vile and dangerous the Thames was in Victorian times can't be underplayed though (my mother remains pretty vocal about how terrible it was in the 60s!). The idea of moving Parliament out of London was even considered as the smell from the Thames was affecting daily life as far upstream as Westminster: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Stink
An interesting aside related to the Princess Alice disaster is that the main northern sewer was only finally fully working months before the disaster and its outflow was very close to the crash site. Work began in the next decade to purify the sewage rather than just dumping it into the Thames there.
But I'd argue (and this is just a hunch) that sewage was "deadly" then in the sense that if the water then were as clean as now, the death toll would have been far lower, especially as the crash happened so close to (admittedly rather muddy) land.
Re: Princess Alice disaster: The Thames' 650 forgotten dead
#8Some original articles - https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/220442169 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/107939744 > Is sewage deadly? No, the Thames back then would have been the same as many rivers in many poorer countries today. Many of these rivers are scavenged, not without issue, but a quick dunk isn't going to have immediately killed anyone. Author needs to travel more, oldie England is still a…
Just how vile and dangerous the Thames was in Victorian times can't be underplayed though (my mother remains pretty vocal about how terrible it was in the 60s !). The idea of moving Parliament out of London was even considered as the smell from the Thames was affecting daily life as far upstream as Westminster: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Stink An interesting aside related to the Princess Alice disaster is th…
Sewage was widely believed to be deadly due to its association with "night airs", which the (now disproven) miasma theory of disease held was responsible for many infections. While John Snow demonstrated the epidemiological evidence for contagion (physical contact) as the mechanism for disease transmission in 1857, actual proof that bacteria were the caustative agent in contagious infectious disease only became available in the late 1870s (via the work of, in particular, Robert Koch and Louis Pasteir), and medical opinion (as with public opinion) was slow to adapt to new scientific findings in those days.
More on the miasma theory of disease here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miasma_theory
Re: Princess Alice disaster: The Thames' 650 forgotten dead
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just how vile and dangerous the Thames was in Victorian times can't be underplayed though (my mother remains pretty vocal about how terrible it was in the 60s !). The idea of moving Parliament out of London was even considered as the smell from the Thames was affecting daily life as far upstream as Westminster: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Stink An interesting aside related to the Princess Alice disaster is th…
Sewage was widely believed to be deadly due to its association with "night airs", which the (now disproven) miasma theory of disease held was responsible for many infections. While John Snow demonstrated the epidemiological evidence for contagion (physical contact) as the mechanism for disease transmission in 1857, actual proof that bacteria were the caustative agent in contagious infectious disease only became avail…
There's definitely still a sewage treatment plant near the site of the accident:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sheerness,+UK/@51.5112905,...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beckton#Sewage_works
But you can't discount the difference between the dictionary definition of "sewage" versus the reality of incidental pollution as discovered in-situ.
Case in point:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gowanus_Canal
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2010/03/post_25.html
https://www.timeout.com/newyork/blog/ten-feet-of-black-mayon...
https://ny.curbed.com/2018/7/19/17590126/brooklyn-gowanus-dr...
http://nautil.us/blog/in-the-black-mayonnaise-of-brooklyns-g...
https://www.brownstoner.com/development/gowanus-canal-black-...
https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20161123/gowanus/gowanus-ca...
Also:
Re: Princess Alice disaster: The Thames' 650 forgotten dead
#10see also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS_General_Slocum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Eastland Current passenger ship safety regulations are very much written in blood.
Interestingly the saftey regulations also contributed to the sinking of SS Eastland (your 2nd link):
> During 1915, the new federal Seamen's Act had been passed because of the RMS Titanic disaster three years earlier. The law required retrofitting of a complete set of lifeboats on Eastland, as on many other passenger vessels.[7] This additional weight may have made Eastland more dangerous by making it even more top-heavy. Some argued that other Great Lakes ships would suffer from the same problem.[7] Nonetheless, it was signed into law by President Woodrow Wilson.