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Dumb Rules That Make Your Best People Want to Quit (2017)

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Re: Dumb Rules That Make Your Best People Want to Quit (2017)

#61

Post by EliRivers »

arethuza wrote: post #33
sureaboutthis wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I worked in the medical field, doctors would occasionally visit unannounced. We were required to wear a shirt and tie, with an available jacket, at all times.

I remember my brother in law, who worked in very senior position in a large UK financial institution that "holidays are when you can go into the office and take your suit jacket off". I don't even own a suit :-) Edit: A few years back I turned down a second interview at the same organisation after they insisted I turn up "in standard business attire" - i.e. a suit.

"holidays are when you can go into the office and take your suit jacket off"

Last time I went on holiday, I took a tailored suit and dressed smarter than I do at work. Three-piece suit (typically I wore just the waistcoat; done right, that looks smarter than the jacket), tailored shirt to go with it.

When it's your own choice to look sharp, it's a whole different game.

Re: Dumb Rules That Make Your Best People Want to Quit (2017)

#62

Post by geomark »

dagw wrote: post #55
geomark wrote: post #39

Indeed some of these rules and policies are ridiculous. I particularly enjoyed my time as a mid-level manager at a large aerospace company where we did stack ranking each year. We had to stack rank an organization that consisted of five departments with over 300 engineers. I was one of the department managers. Each department manager's goal was to get as many of his members ranked as highly as possible. The game theo…

"If you don’t trust the people you hired, why did you hire them?" How about because they interviewed well and you thought you could trust them Or just as likely, "you" didn't hire them. Someone else in the company did based on criteria that are different than yours.

Very good point. Encountered that situation a few times.

Re: Dumb Rules That Make Your Best People Want to Quit (2017)

#63

Post by fjsolwmv »

Klover wrote: post #43
philpem wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is, it's rarely an on-the-spot firing (at least in the UK). There are usually a few levels of "performance improvement" / "how can we help you get back on track?" before you get anywhere near "you're goneski". Assuming we're just talking about "not quite the best" work performance here.

It’s really expensive to fire people. Not only do you lose out on the recruiting, the training, the profiling. You will have to do it all over again. I’ve never fired anyone in my entire career in the EU. I do not understand how it’s feasible to do it willy-nilly in the USA. Can anyone tell me that? Or is it much more rare than I think?

Firing is rare in the US. Layoffs (bulk termination of many people at once) are common, and much scarier because of US's weak social safety net.

Re: Dumb Rules That Make Your Best People Want to Quit (2017)

#64

Post by fjsolwmv »

rejschaap wrote: post #46
dagw wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They obviously should, but many don't. Some people don't like causing 'trouble', some people just quietly do what they're told, some people are just shy or introvert or have trouble communicating clearly. I good manager should be able to work with and get the most out of these sorts of people as well, without those people also having to the managers job for them.

From your brief description that sounds like a useful meeting. Useful enough to do more often than once or twice per year. But it doesn't really sound like a performance review.

If you retroactively define a performance review as whatever isn't good, of course they are bad.

Re: Dumb Rules That Make Your Best People Want to Quit (2017)

#65

Post by fjsolwmv »

mberning wrote: post #42

Let people work from home at their own whim. Never inquire about their performance. Never document anything related to their performance. Shutter your company in 5 years when you have a bloated payroll, terrible products, and nothing ever gets done on time. I get that actually managing people and their performance is harshly frowned upon on HN, but it is a very necessary evil. Working in a place where the inmates run…

Employees aren't inmates. A place where the employees run the company is a strong organization.

Re: Dumb Rules That Make Your Best People Want to Quit (2017)

#66

Post by songzme »

Rally anyone? I have a hard time getting used to it, and I've seen stories being worked on for the sake of being in rally even though there isn't enough information for good work to be done. I've seen engineers do good work to build features that the product needed but engineer was discouraged from doing it because it wasn't in rally first. And pointing sucks, we're trying to fill stories in just to meet certain point quota per Sprint.

Re: Dumb Rules That Make Your Best People Want to Quit (2017)

#67

Post by chrisdhoover »

jamestimmins wrote: post #34
sonnyblarney wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Oh and shirt is mandatory" So wait, coding without a shirt on is how a thing? My god man. If there is air conditioning, slacks shouldn't be a problem though shorts aren't extraordinarily unsuitable. You can wear a shirt man.

In some countries a "shirt" means specifically a button-down. In the same way that "slacks" means long pants. So this likely just means that a button-down is required rather than a t-shirt.

A button down shirt is one where the collar is buttoned to the yoke. I think you mean a button up shirt, one that has a placket and buttons in the front versus a pull over or t-shirt.

Re: Dumb Rules That Make Your Best People Want to Quit (2017)

#68

Post by GFischer »

fjsolwmv wrote: post #65
mberning wrote: post #42

Let people work from home at their own whim. Never inquire about their performance. Never document anything related to their performance. Shutter your company in 5 years when you have a bloated payroll, terrible products, and nothing ever gets done on time. I get that actually managing people and their performance is harshly frowned upon on HN, but it is a very necessary evil. Working in a place where the inmates run…

Employees aren't inmates. A place where the employees run the company is a strong organization.

There have been lots of discussions here on HN, personally I think that an employee-run company still needs leadership. And companies can be good for employees without needing to be employee-run.

See for example Valve, there's been a lot written about it, not all of it good:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/30/no-bos...

https://www.pcgamer.com/ex-valve-employee-describes-ruthless...

Politics will ALWAYS exist at a workplace.

Re: Dumb Rules That Make Your Best People Want to Quit (2017)

#69

Post by ianbicking »

realandreskytt wrote: post #36
dalbasal wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idk about the US, but I imagine it's more similar to the EU than the press suggests.... Anyway in most of the EU, by law and by convention^ people don't get fired often. When they do, it's a part of a greater process where a department is reorganized, jobs have been made redundant or somesuch. Firing individuals for below average performance is rare. It needs to be an extreme. If it is dines, it's done as part of a p…

I’ve fired and been fired for sub-par performance. I’m from the EU. Its not that rare at all.

Everyone is saying "EU" here, but the laws are all national, not at the level of the EU.

It also depends on how you choose to exercise your rights. Many countries have a lot of ways to push back if you are fired, but afaik they aren't automatic.

Re: Dumb Rules That Make Your Best People Want to Quit (2017)

#70

Post by jestar_jokin »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #57
dagw wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, blunt candor can work as well. Only if it goes both ways. If I can't respond to my managers blunt candor with "the reason we're so far behind is because you suck at time management and promised the customer two features we hadn't even begun to plan for" without fear of being reprimanded or punished then blunt candor isn't very effective.

""the reason we're so far behind is because you suck at time management and promised the customer two features we hadn't even begun to plan for" " First, if you ever said that to your boss you should definitely be fired. Second, that's operational information, not performance feedback. Third, it's not your prerogative to tell your boss what he's good or bad at. They give you the review, not the other way around.

Right, because managers never need feedback on how well they're managing their staff...?!

Some shops have "360 degree reviews", where you need to get reviews from your colleagues and people you serve (or to use an ungenerous phrase, your underlings), not just your boss.

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