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Vocore2, a ridiculously small Linux PC

vocore.io

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Re: Vocore2, a ridiculously small Linux PC

#51

Post by dagenix »

Oh dear - no HTTPS on that page. But, it does host a store section that lets you add stuff to your cart and then click a checkout button. That button takes you to PayPal (unless an attacker re-directed you elsewhere). Its not clear to me that there would be any real way to verify that what you are paying for the stuff from that website - it seems relatively straightforward for an attacker to modify the PayPal link to send you to pay for stuff on their store.

Basically, this seems like a pretty irresponsible way to run a web store.

Re: Vocore2, a ridiculously small Linux PC

#54

Post by ethbro »

askvictor wrote: post #19
tomas789 wrote: post #2

This project looks awesome. I can imagine it being used instead of the ESP8266 in many of my IoT projects. That would be a huge time saver. It will start to become competitive once it is actually cheaper than Raspberry Pi Zero. Especially as the Vocore2 is MIPS-based.

My main issue with using a full-blown linux device for IoT is that it's a full blown linux device. Not only is it harder to get up and running IMHO (vs just flashing your code to esp8266), you need to maintain a full OS which is a hassle security wise in the longer term. I get that there are some advantages, but overall I think IoT is better off as simple as possible. Also, it's not possible to take the RPi zero seri…

Simplicity-first is a good point.

By choosing more complex, extendable system, the manufacturer can deliver extra functionality.

But on the other hand, every bit of additional complexity requires maintenance (both security and as standards evolve).

IoT companies rarely seem to care about the latter, which ultimately only impacts the customer (unless there's a recurring service model of revenue).

Something like the digital hazardous waste idea should be mandatory in the IoT space. Either: (a) you provide timely security patches for all shipped code and a way to apply them to your product, OR (b) you freely offer such tools, keys, and source as are necessary for users to self-patch.

Don't want to be responsible? Don't include unnecessary functionality.

Re: Vocore2, a ridiculously small Linux PC

#55

Post by monocasa »

KenanSulayman wrote: post #18
amelius wrote: post #17

The problem with Linux in these applications is that it's not a realtime OS.

You don't actually need RTOSs for most practical applications. Even SpaceX used stock Linux. That said, Linux can be built in a realtime mode.[1] [1] https://wiki.linuxfoundation.org/realtime/start

RT Linux is only soft real time.

SpaceX uses Linux but also uses VxWorks for the real time pieces.

Re: Vocore2, a ridiculously small Linux PC

#56

Post by monocasa »

rcxdude wrote: post #33
amelius wrote: post #17

The problem with Linux in these applications is that it's not a realtime OS.

You can get pretty fantastic latencies on stock linux with some tuning, with the kind of processors embedded linux runs on you only really gain some microseconds by going to realtime variants. The main reason to prefer a true RTOS is because it will generally be simpler, and thus a bit more predictable and reliable in its behaviour, which is important for high-reliability systems.

> The main reason to prefer a true RTOS is because it will generally be simpler, and thus a bit more predictable and reliable in its behaviour

I mean... you just defined real time there.

Re: Vocore2, a ridiculously small Linux PC

#57

Post by adiusmus »

awvcs wrote: post #36
rcxdude wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 2x Ethernet is a little quirky in implementation: Internally, the CPU only has one ethernet MAC, which is connected to a switch on the same die. In practice, linux sees two ethernet ports, but this is implemented by VLAN tagging on the internal switch. So if you think you have two actual ports and want to interact with VLANs, you're gonna have a bad time.

And the performance isn't very good either from what I have heard. It is a good candidate if you want to try and make something cheap, but few (none?) of the offerings really are (olimex has one if anyone is interested). Personally I am pretty tired of the Linux ecosystem in general. It is pretty well known that you can ship broken stuff by slapping an open source sticker on it.

Thanks for the heads up.

Lots of compromises in the sbc space. A lot aren’t required but cost is the most common factor.

Re: Vocore2, a ridiculously small Linux PC

#59

Post by jamesg »

Yeri wrote: post #38

This is something similar that's about to get released and way faster: https://neutis.io/

I’ve recently been experimenting with this board, which looks to be quite similar (Allwinner H5): https://www.friendlyarm.com/index.php?route=product/product&...

Overall it’s an impressive little package, however I’ve been finding that you need to underclock the CPU to make it stable. Or possibly use a giant heat sink, but that would somewhat counteract the benefits of such a tiny board. Do you know if Neutis have found a good solution for keeping the H5 stable?

However, in broader strokes, I’m pretty excited that we’re starting to see these boards with open hardware designs (the vocore and the beagle, for instance). Being able to use this to bootstrap more complex board designs feels a bit like how web apps became a lot easier once the so-called LAMP stack was robust enough to build on top of. There’s additional hurdles with hardware, for sure, but each barrier removed is meaningful progress.

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