$600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft • Hacker News Board

Re: $600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft

#341

Post by fooker » Sun, Sep 02, 2018, 2:41 AM UTC

osrec wrote: post #164

fooker wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with starting from scratch for an Excel alternative is the classic quote : "Everyone needs 10% of the features Excel offers, but is a different 10%."

I don't disagree with you, however someone needs to take up the challenge. Perhaps by creating a base that can be plugged into more easily than LibreOffice or Excel would help encourage development by the community (much like atom and its plugins) Basically, I'm not happy with the status quo that we have no real alternative to Excel on Linux.

That's a nice idea. Libreoffice is rather difficult to extend.

Re: $600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft

#342

Post by wvenable » Sun, Sep 02, 2018, 2:42 AM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #57

fjsolwmv wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ChromeOS isn't a new OS. It's Linux running a web browser and a very simple desktop shell. Windows is 30 years old. Rewriting it would throw away a lot of builtin value.

"Built-in value" Translation: It's good enough. Why innovate? We still make money on it. It's like having a company van that breaks down all the time, but that's O.K. because, "It's paid for!" Meanwhile, your customers are getting increasingly impatient with your inability to meet their needs.

Windows doesn't break down all the time; I've had a continuous environment for like 2-3 versions of Windows now on my desktop. From 7 to 8.1 to 10.

The fact is, I actually like a lot of the "legacy" stuff in Windows (the classic control panel, etc) and the new iOS/Android like stuff feels just as basic on Windows as it does in those operating systems. Windows gets better (and even smaller) with each release; what's not to like.

Re: $600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft

#343

Post by wvenable » Sun, Sep 02, 2018, 3:01 AM UTC

komali2 wrote: post #262

I'm pretty new to tech, and young in general, but I'm curious why what's happening between the different browsers regarding working together to identically implement JavaScript, thus allowing tons of modern applications to be universal across machines as long as you can install a modern browser, not happen before with other programming languages? Or did they? I don't know anything about desktop application developmen…

This is exactly what Java was; you could run GUI apps on every platform and they'd work (and look) exactly the same.

The problem is, though, that every platform is actually different -- look and feel, UI conventions, feature-set, integration, etc. And Java solved this problem by introducing their own look and feel, UI conventions, etc that were completely different from the underlying platform. Sun wanted you to know that you were using a Java application. Users, on the other hand, were not too thrilled with this -- they wanted consistency across applications. Microsoft and Apple weren't too happy with another company trying to paper-over their entire platform so they didn't offer any help either.

The other problem was performance. Especially in those days, abstracting over the entire platform was pretty computationally expensive. Furthermore, since Java didn't render anything with the native UI it also didn't get much rendering help from the OS either.

> the different browsers regarding working together to identically implement JavaScript

They didn't work together; they simply copied features from each other in order to maintain compatibility with "the web". Netscape invented JavaScript. Microsoft copied it and added some features. Netscape copied those features and added some more. Microsoft repeated that. All the browser makers have written some code or API that never copied by everyone else.

It was really not that long ago that the standard process was formed and browser makers actually started working together.

Re: $600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft

#344

Post by canhascodez » Sun, Sep 02, 2018, 3:03 AM UTC

candiodari wrote: post #277

ChrisSD wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I meant disabling "suggestions" stops them coming back again in the future. Although Windows has had update "bugs" whereby this setting is ignored. This is solved by delaying feature updates until at least a week or so after release.

Maybe I'm the only one here, but it seem absurd to me to count on Google, an advertising company, not advertise on Chromebooks. Not yet ... perhaps. Perhaps. Not ? No way.

ChromeOS is open-source. Last I looked, their build process was a horror beyond all reason. However, it would at least be possible to strip out any advertising built into the OS. Thing is though, Google controls the advertising on the top two pages on the Internet, and as long as that's true, they don't really need to do anything other than make sure you get there. Which is the strategy behind Google Fiber, Loon, and to some degree Android, more-or-less the reason for Chrome's existence, and why Chromebooks are designed around constant Internet access: all roads lead to Rome.

Re: $600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft

#345

Post by CamperBob2 » Sun, Sep 02, 2018, 3:04 AM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #105

reaperducer wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FTA: "There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance. It's a $500 subsidized item. They may make a lot of money. But if you actually take a look at the 1.3 billion phones that get sold, I'd prefer to have our software in 60% or 70% or 80% of them, than I would to have 2% or 3%, which is what Apple might get." I wonder what the maximum penetration was for Windows OSes on phon…

To be fair, after over a decade of trying, Apple still only has 15% market share. If Microsoft had the other 85%, they'd be in a good position.

If Microsoft had the other 85%, they'd be in a good position.

People forget that they effectively do have most of that 85%. Every Android installation kicks back some money to Microsoft in the form of patent royalties.

Re: $600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft

#346

Post by jodrellblank » Sun, Sep 02, 2018, 3:43 AM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #20

matt2000 wrote: post #15

I never really understood why MSFT didn't start a clean slate rewrite of Windows about a decade ago. Imagine how much simpler and more reliable it could be, and you could run Windows 7 in an emulation layer if you had older apps you depended on. Even OS X has the feel that cloud services are kind of bolted on, whereas a new OS written in this era could feel more like ChromeOS in terms of reliability but still include…

The “growing discontent” is mostly within the Internet bubble. Mac sales declines are happening more because of the lack of new compelling hardware until recently. Microsoft rewriting the operating system from scratch wouldn’t help. The only compelling advantage that Windows had was backwards compatibility. Once you take that away they have nothing left - evidenced by thier complete failure on mobile.

The only compelling advantage that Windows had was backwards compatibility.

and games, and popular software, and domain administration, and office, and tons of users and books and training and repair people available everywhere, and hardware compatibility, and ubiquity from home to work to places like library computers, and a tidy enough GUI, and thorough accessibility options, and ..

Re: $600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft

#347

Post by panda88888 » Sun, Sep 02, 2018, 3:44 AM UTC

sgroppino wrote: post #114

nextos wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm interested in Chromebooks for a different reason, the same reason that brings me to Pixel phones. I hate software that tracks me, but if I wipe out Android and I install a self compiled AOSP, it's a superb user experience for me. Will these more upmarket Chromebooks (which have x86 CPUs and acceptable RAM & storage) be OK to run any regular Linux distro? Right now, Xiaomi laptops are excellent cheap machines to r…

Which Xiaomi laptop is good with Linux Mint? Are they better than Lenovo?

Asus Zenbook UX305 also support Linux 100% out of the box. It’s essentially a MacBook clone with 13” 1080p screen, m3, 8 gb ram, and 256 ssd. I currently use one with Mint Linux and is happy with it.

Re: $600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft

#348

Post by shrumm » Sun, Sep 02, 2018, 4:16 AM UTC

disconnected wrote: post #96

This article misses the mark completely by assuming that Microsoft still needs Windows to stay afloat. This hasn't been true for years. They have realized that it doesn't matter whether you use Windows, Chrome OS, Android or Linux, or anything else: everything is in the cloud now, so the OS is pretty much irrelevant. Azure, Office 365 and heck, even Linkedin are doing great: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/07/19/m…

One major differentiator for Azure is its 1st class support for Windows / Microsoft centric tech. Besides that, I find it hard to see why someone would pick them over AWS. So if consumer Windows becomes irrelevant, so does Windows server. If you’re no longer needing Windows server, why get SQL server and so on. I think consumer Windows demand fuels demand for Azure and Office 365.

Re: $600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft

#349

Post by on_and_off » Sun, Sep 02, 2018, 4:27 AM UTC

donarb wrote: post #176

on_and_off wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It reminds me of Microsoft organizing a burial for Android when they launched a new Windows Phone version .. Both are extremely bad reactions at face value but also show how clueless the company can be (at least if you believe it is indicative of the company's mindset)

That was actually a funeral for the iPhone. They even rented a hearse and had pallbearers walking a iPhone casket through the streets of Redmond. https://www.cnet.com/pictures/microsofts-funeral-for-the-iph...

oh indeed iPhone and Blackberry.

Anyway, even if it had been Blackberry and WebOs, it would still have been pretty awful.

Re: $600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft

#350

Post by girvo » Sun, Sep 02, 2018, 4:29 AM UTC

Buge wrote: post #307

reaperducer wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the comments about the iPhone seem to have been basically accurate If by "basically accurate," you mean "not accurate at all." It's a long way from 2% to 45%. Not many companies get to underestimate their competition's potential marketshare by a factor of 22 and survive.

Apple has 15%, not 45%. So it's 5-8x, not 22x. And the original quote appears to be about all phones, not just smartphones, so the factor would in fact be even lower.

Apple has 45% in most OECD countries. Even higher in some of them, IIRC.