$600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft • Hacker News Board

Re: $600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft

#331

Post by adventured » Sun, Sep 02, 2018, 1:49 AM UTC

johncolanduoni wrote: post #302

candiodari wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm the only one here, but it seem absurd to me to count on Google, an advertising company, not advertise on Chromebooks. Not yet ... perhaps. Perhaps. Not ? No way.

Since Chromebooks are very internet-forward, they get plenty of advertising opportunities without installing banner ads or something similar into the OS. Are you expecting them to start advertising on the Android home screen too?

They already do something better for their ad business moat. They just push their Google Apps bloatware collection on the Android ecosystem at every possible chance they get. I use none of it, yet it still comes with my Samsung phone whether I like it or not. I would expect them to continue that approach with any operating systems they control.

Re: $600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft

#332

Post by walterbell » Sun, Sep 02, 2018, 1:51 AM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #251

sarcasmic wrote: post #24

Any Chromebook more than $400 right now is just there to absorb even more disposable income from the market, because they ship with nicer finishes and faster processors, but they are anemic on memory and storage, making them subpar for intense multitasking, or getting certain types of work done. The situations in which they excel can be reliably hit by Chromebooks around a $400 price point, and even cheaper Chromeboo…

To my way of thinking, this is exactly the blind spot: ... they are anemic on memory and storage, making them subpar for intense multitasking, or getting certain types of work done. Look at the iPad Pro, 2GB of memory, not a "laptop" class CPU. etc. It is eating into Microsoft's market for the same reason. The "big" part of the laptop wedge is people who aren't gamers, or intense multitaskers, or intense local storag…

*> iOS based, ARM processor based Macbook air

How will it run MacOS apps - x86 emulation like Qualcomm for Windows 10?

Re: $600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft

#333

Post by debaserab2 » Sun, Sep 02, 2018, 2:06 AM UTC

DennisAleynikov wrote: post #330

debaserab2 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They "double-downed" on that decision ten years ago, and now they are the most profitable company in the world. I think it's safe to say whatever bet they made paid off handsomely.

it's paid off handsomely and cut off apples prospects of expanding beyond the 15% market share they currently enjoy. sure owning 15% of the global smartphone market makes them money but androids 85% share ensures googles dominance in the sector unless apple lowers some of its hardware walls and turns them into bridges. #buildbridgesnotwalls

What does market share matter when you've captured the part of the market where all the significant margins are?

Re: $600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft

#334

Post by ChuckMcM » Sun, Sep 02, 2018, 2:08 AM UTC

walterbell wrote: post #332

ChuckMcM wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To my way of thinking, this is exactly the blind spot: ... they are anemic on memory and storage, making them subpar for intense multitasking, or getting certain types of work done. Look at the iPad Pro, 2GB of memory, not a "laptop" class CPU. etc. It is eating into Microsoft's market for the same reason. The "big" part of the laptop wedge is people who aren't gamers, or intense multitaskers, or intense local storag…

*> iOS based, ARM processor based Macbook air How will it run MacOS apps - x86 emulation like Qualcomm for Windows 10?

If I were at Apple building it, I wouldn't have it run any MacOS apps, just iOS apps. There are lots of articles about how that would happen, see[1] as an example.

[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidphelan/2018/04/11/the-one-...

Re: $600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft

#335

Post by vxNsr » Sun, Sep 02, 2018, 2:20 AM UTC

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #146

awucs wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think "2% or 3%" was very realistic, but you have to remember that when the iPhone first came out it wasn't very good. I didn't have 3G, GPS or App Store (nor a couple of other things). Apple was certainly ahead, but the market also wasn't ready nor big at that. When it actually matured there were a couple of solid offerings including from Microsoft, which among other things had arguably better design than An…

> (nor a couple of other things). Some other fun ones to mention: didn't let you copy/paste text (for the first 2 years of iPhone), didn't let you record video, and didn't let you make a selfie while looking at the screen. (no front-facing camera)

didn't let you make a selfie while looking at the screen. (no front-facing camera)

To be fair no smartphone did in the first couple years.

didn't let you copy/paste text (for the first 2 years of iPhone)

I got the iphone right after this shipped just by chance, and I couldn't understand how anyone lived without it. Also the had just added the "task switcher" carousel and the precursor to the control center, both features I used heavily and was surprised to learn didn't exist just a few months prior.

Re: $600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft

#336

Post by wvenable » Sun, Sep 02, 2018, 2:21 AM UTC

wrs wrote: post #80

mabbo wrote: post #5

I was an intern at Microsoft the day that ChromeOS was announced. Conveniently, a few days later the head of Windows was giving a talk to all the interns. Overall, spoke well, but during Q&A someone asked him what he thought about ChromeOS. He laughed. He said it was a joke. He made it very clear that he didn't understand what Google was even thinking. And that stuck such a sour chord on me. Here's a company well kno…

Pre-Satya Microsoft had an odd combination of paranoia and blindness regarding the rise of browser applications. Blindness: I was in a Microsoft VP’s office when he said he was downsizing the IE effort because “the browser is done”, enterprise users were satisfied, and consumers don’t generate significant Windows revenue. I think that was IE6. Paranoia: I was present for many early-00s decisions where a Microsoft exe…

> So they were at least scared of the idea of a “browser OS” in the abstract.

Well you literally had Mozilla telling everyone they could that the browser is going to be the OS in that era. Microsoft was certainly paying attention.

Re: $600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft

#337

Post by wvenable » Sun, Sep 02, 2018, 2:22 AM UTC

bena wrote: post #158

wrs wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pre-Satya Microsoft had an odd combination of paranoia and blindness regarding the rise of browser applications. Blindness: I was in a Microsoft VP’s office when he said he was downsizing the IE effort because “the browser is done”, enterprise users were satisfied, and consumers don’t generate significant Windows revenue. I think that was IE6. Paranoia: I was present for many early-00s decisions where a Microsoft exe…

In a lot of ways they aren't/weren't. Office does a lot of things their own way and without a lot of the cross-compatibility that's a feature of most Microsoft products. That's why you'll find you'll be able to do something in Office, but other Microsoft programs won't. Or vice versa. Like Notepad and Internet Explorer are pretty much just containers for certain Windows controls. Controls Office don't use. They roll…

> Wouldn't surprise me to find out that Office had their own browser rendering engine that didn't rely on anything in IE.

Outlook renders HTML for email but doesn't use IE.

This, of course, was a very smart decision even though Outlook's rendering of HTML is terrible.

Re: $600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft

#338

Post by c5karl » Sun, Sep 02, 2018, 2:26 AM UTC

bena wrote: post #158

wrs wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pre-Satya Microsoft had an odd combination of paranoia and blindness regarding the rise of browser applications. Blindness: I was in a Microsoft VP’s office when he said he was downsizing the IE effort because “the browser is done”, enterprise users were satisfied, and consumers don’t generate significant Windows revenue. I think that was IE6. Paranoia: I was present for many early-00s decisions where a Microsoft exe…

In a lot of ways they aren't/weren't. Office does a lot of things their own way and without a lot of the cross-compatibility that's a feature of most Microsoft products. That's why you'll find you'll be able to do something in Office, but other Microsoft programs won't. Or vice versa. Like Notepad and Internet Explorer are pretty much just containers for certain Windows controls. Controls Office don't use. They roll…

> Wouldn't surprise me to find out that Office had their own browser rendering engine that didn't rely on anything in IE.

I'm not sure what the situation is now, but for a long time Outlook used MS Word, not MSIE, to render HTML email messages. Word is a terrible web browser, so that made it next to impossible to design templates for things like email newsletters that would look & behave sensibly in Outlook.

Re: $600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft

#339

Post by samstave » Sun, Sep 02, 2018, 2:34 AM UTC

debaserab2 wrote: post #221

DennisAleynikov wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess apple is totally okay with being a minority of the market then since they're doubling down on proprietary sensors and apps that only work in their own ecosystem. they can ignore the 85% if they want. The 85% of the market will ignore them back in turn.

They "double-downed" on that decision ten years ago, and now they are the most profitable company in the world. I think it's safe to say whatever bet they made paid off handsomely.

If you look at the success of apple - they do one thing really really well; make products for people with money to spend. Apple doesnt care about anything other than customers who can afford to pay, and are willing to pay, for their products.

Apple makes good products, but they arent without frustrations or limitations, and you'd better accept these if you want what you do get from apple products.

You know that the engineering will be in the top ~90%, for example. What is the 10% or so that apple fails on WRT to engineering; accessories, flexibility/upgradability, vendor-lock-in on software. All of which simply lead you to spend more money on supporting having apple products.

Accessories: How much money have you spent on chargers, cables, headphones, cases, screen-protectors, screen repairs?

Flexibility/upgradability: Want more storage/ram? Buy the next model - no upgrades.

Software: Fewer OSS options for software/apps.

There are certain things I like about apple, and certain things I hate. But the primary thing I hate is that you cant do much without paying a premium...

Re: $600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft

#340

Post by wvenable » Sun, Sep 02, 2018, 2:39 AM UTC

matt2000 wrote: post #67

praseodym wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A rewrite without full backwards compatibility just wouldn’t have taken off. Even today, developers are reluctant to embrace the new Universal Windows Platform that sheds a lot of the legacy Win32 brings with it.

That's why I was suggesting running Win7 in an emulator for legacy apps.

And everybody runs everything in the emulator, because day one that's where their apps are. Developers continue to develop for it because not everyone has upgraded to Win7 yet. And you just end up with 2 OS's competing for users and developers from one company.