Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young • Hacker News Board

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#181

Post by closeparen » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 10:29 PM UTC

dx87 wrote: post #93

zeroxfe wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now that many new cars are coming with have high-def wide-angle rear view cameras, I don't really need my neck muscles anymore. At some point we'll "evolve" to rocks... rocks with wifi.

That reminds me of a TED talk I saw where the speaker was saying that something he's noticed with a lot of academics and tech types is that they only care about flexing their mental muscles; their bodies are only useful for moving their brain from one place to another, so a lot of what they build is done to make it so they have to use their bodies less.

My experience in Silicon Valley is that tech workers are drastically more fit than the general public.

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#182

Post by btingle » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 10:32 PM UTC

justboxing wrote: post #163

gbear605 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For people between 25 and 54, in America, there are almost exactly as many men as women, to within less than one percent. [0] So if you see more men than women around you, that's a filter bubble that you've artificially put yourself in. Therefore the converse must be that there are many other places in America where there are more women than men. So go out, socialize, get away from your bubble, and meet other people.…

> For people between 25 and 54, in America, there are almost exactly as many men as women, to within less than one percent Even if true, this means nothing w.r.t. men struggling to find women. Like with most other things in life, a few good (looking) men, rich men, charismatic men disproportionately (get to) date several women, whereas most (,not all) women tend to be loyal to 1 guy [1], so that leaves a lot of men w…

Are you saying that there is an epidemic of polyamorous, rich, good looking men? In my experience, men dating multiple women at once, while it does happen, is not very common. Same goes for women. If people mostly pair off 1:1, this hypothesis that a small percentage of men control a large percentage of women (occupy chad street?) doesn’t really make any sense.

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#183

Post by closeparen » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 10:47 PM UTC

_8j50 wrote: post #76

Have you seen the movie "Shawshank Redemption"? It makes an interesting point about becoming institutionalized. There was an inmate that was released after ~50 years,he committed suicide because he couldn't adopt to living outside of the prison system. What they call the loneliness epidemic these days is a bit like that. In fact,I would say loneliness is social imprisonment. For one reason or the other individuals en…

Social skills are an interface, a communications protocol. That is necessary but not sufficient. You also have to have something substantive to say over that channel - an attractive personality, an interesting life. When that’s missing, mere presence and conversation don’t make anyone involved any less lonely.

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#184

Post by nickjj » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 10:53 PM UTC

clarry wrote: post #179

nickjj wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes it does. Threads of society are being cut, which is not only causing loneliness, but also emotional distancing, political polarization, demonizing folks in other camps, etc. The post I replied to mentioned specifically small talk with various clerks and tellers. Those clerks and tellers are still there today, just like they were 20 years ago. If you walk into any of those stores listed, you'll find human beings…

> I think blaming technology is just a cop out. Oh, tech doesn't prevent one from seeking out social interaction. But it really does seem to reduce unplanned & opportunistic interaction. Maybe I'd chat with people on my way to work. Problem is, they're most likely sitting in a car. Or riding a bike. Or blasting music from their headphones while staring at their phones.. actually, maybe I'm sitting in a car too. Or no…

> Maybe I'd chat with people on my way to work. Problem is, they're most likely sitting in a car. Or riding a bike. Or blasting music from their headphones while staring at their phones.. actually, maybe I'm sitting in a car too. Or not, because technology enables remote work and I don't have a commute.

Sweeping changes like cars vs walking is definitely a big deal but let's not forget about trains too. Technology allows us to group together for decent amounts of time. Every time I take the train to Manhattan there's hundreds of new faces for a ~90min trip each way. I almost always end up in a conversation with someone for a majority of the ride.

A few weeks ago I flew to CA and had ~6 hours of flying in either direction. Ended up talking to a few people (layovers, etc.) and had in depth conversations. Technology helped with that too.

> Same phenomenon when I go for a walk or jog. People are preoccupied with their devices.

I walk ~4 miles a day and have been for 5+ years. There's plenty of opportunities to talk to people and I don't even live in a big city, just a medium populated suburban area in the US. If I really wanted to, I could talk to 15 or 20 people a day. That's just walking past other people walking or people hanging out for lunch outside of the main mini-town area, etc..

If it were a populated area like Manhattan, there would be thousands of opportunities in a few hour time span. Just an endless sea of people waiting to be approached.

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#185

Post by gthtjtkt » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 10:54 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #16

There's no indication in this short write up if they also surveyed how often people get out. I think it'd be a likely hypothesis that people today do hang out more with friends, simply because it is easier. Remember the 90s? You're waiting in a parking lot to go caving. "Where's Will?" "I don't know." "Call his house, there's a payphone over there." "His mom said he left 30 minutes ago." "Well I guess we'll just wait…

Remember the '90s when you made plans and everyone actually showed up instead of cancelling at the last minute because there wasn't any way to do that?

Before everyone had a cell phone we didn't need to "make plans" every time we wanted to hang out. Hanging out with friends was just what you did.

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#186

Post by vilmosi » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 11:01 PM UTC

JoshMnem wrote: post #87

PeterStuer wrote: post #4

Another thing I wondered about is the impact of automation and volatility on, for lack of a better word 'involuntary' micro social interactions. Until fairly recently people had 'forced' social interactions when doing their finances, shopping etc. Even if involuntary they 'trained' people's social skills and withered away at their acquired/innate social anxiety. Furthermore, even in these situations the persons you i…

I have similar worries about AI. Example: I never let computer programs reply for me by clicking pre-written responses to emails or messages. The designers of those products are making the mistake that the less you have to think about things the better, but I think that you have to use your brain or you will lose it. Even those simple routine tasks (like talking to a bank teller for three minutes) provide essential c…

I don't know, they used to say the same thing about writting.

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#187

Post by _8j50 » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 11:02 PM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #183

_8j50 wrote: post #76

Have you seen the movie "Shawshank Redemption"? It makes an interesting point about becoming institutionalized. There was an inmate that was released after ~50 years,he committed suicide because he couldn't adopt to living outside of the prison system. What they call the loneliness epidemic these days is a bit like that. In fact,I would say loneliness is social imprisonment. For one reason or the other individuals en…

Social skills are an interface, a communications protocol. That is necessary but not sufficient. You also have to have something substantive to say over that channel - an attractive personality, an interesting life. When that’s missing, mere presence and conversation don’t make anyone involved any less lonely.

I don't know about that. Even if their lives are boring anf they have a bland personality, I think with the right skills and confidence I can be friends with most HN users(or rather most 'hackers'). What I mean is,having something in common or a common interest might be enough,even if you're not well spoken or well rounded as a person.

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#188

Post by elyrly » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 11:09 PM UTC

whitepoplar wrote: post #138

Moving to NYC saved my life. I was depressed, lonely, insecure, and starving socially. When I got here, I discovered a city of people who were earnest, open to meeting others, and happy to welcome me into their lives. What makes this city so great for people like me is that it forces you to both strive for better and not take yourself so seriously (because no one fucking cares). It's a city full of selfish, caring, h…

wonderful summary of NYC

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#189

Post by andai » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 11:11 PM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #180

PeterStuer wrote: post #4

Another thing I wondered about is the impact of automation and volatility on, for lack of a better word 'involuntary' micro social interactions. Until fairly recently people had 'forced' social interactions when doing their finances, shopping etc. Even if involuntary they 'trained' people's social skills and withered away at their acquired/innate social anxiety. Furthermore, even in these situations the persons you i…

As someone with a history of loneliness, I’ve have no shortage of businesslike interactions with strangers and acquantiances. The problem has always been a lack of close relationships with emotional weight. The effect of superficial interactions on my mood is neutral at best, and sometimes negative (as a reminder that my interactions stem from business necessity and institutional circumstances rather than interest an…

I recently realized that I am using (overusing) text-chat to compensate for a lack of real face to face interaction. As such I have deleted all my instant messaging accounts, in an attempt to force myself to face the loneliness and get out and meet people. (Also eliminated YouTube and surfing, for the same reason.)

So far, I'm just really sad and lonely, but that's a good thing, because I was already feeling that way, I was just suppressing it with technology.

I'm checking out communities in my area that meet up regularly. Most of my friends hang out very rarely, and I'd like to meet people and join organizations that meet up on a regular basis.

Also have been working on my social skills and limiting beliefs: learning to make small talk, remember people's names, and recognizing unkind thoughts about myself, which create anxiety and prevent me from beginning or continuing conversations -- and choosing to think kinder, more constructive thoughts instead.

The big "aha" moment for me was realizing, there was an age for me (about 9 years old) when I wasn't shy at all! Because I didn't have all these shitty beliefs about myself. So I've been exploring them, and letting them go.

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#190

Post by andai » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 11:19 PM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #100

PeterStuer wrote: post #4

Another thing I wondered about is the impact of automation and volatility on, for lack of a better word 'involuntary' micro social interactions. Until fairly recently people had 'forced' social interactions when doing their finances, shopping etc. Even if involuntary they 'trained' people's social skills and withered away at their acquired/innate social anxiety. Furthermore, even in these situations the persons you i…

I also wonder how much of recent 'tech' is due to not very articulated desire to do away with the burden of these social interactions. Something I did want to before[1] but maybe it would be better (and maybe we'll see it this way later) to just revamp the current structure and way we exchange to each other. To make a bold myopic summary, internet is kinda breaking us apart.

I used to always use the automatic check out at the supermarket, because I used to dread being forced to interact with a stranger (who often doesn't even want to be there, or interact with me!)

I recently began doing a job that requires me to smile at and greet strangers all day long, and I found myself doing this automatically off the job as well. So now I find myself having pleasant interactions with supermarket staff, and looking forward to saying hello to them.

The other day, after taking the automatic checkout out of habit, I realized that I had missed a great opportunity to connect with another human being, by choosing to use the machine instead. Then I thought, all of society seems to be headed in this direction, and it seems sad.

On the other hand, making life more efficient in this way does free up the time we previously had to spend interacting with strangers, and we are now free to use that time to create deeper, more meaningful connections with friends.