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EA Artist, Soon To Be Laid Off, Burns EA Management, Discusses Failed MMO

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Re: EA Artist, Soon To Be Laid Off, Burns EA Management, Discusses Failed MMO

#81

Post by gamble »

potatolicious wrote: post #70
mattm wrote: post #62

I have no inside knowledge of EA but from reading this and the EA Spouse letter in the past, I'm amazed EA can actually deliver any software.

I grew up in Vancouver, Canada - home of EA's largest office, and knew many people who worked for them. They deliver code because the number of glory-seekers is basically infinite. They can afford to burn people out and abuse them to no end because there are a hojillion more lined up outside the door, just begging for someone to get burned out and leave so they can get in. I also knew some testers, and heard about th…

The games industry is exactly like the TV or movie industry. Entry level jobs really, really suck. But if you can stick around long enough to become established (read: ship a successful title) then you can write your own check. Experienced game developers never lack for good offers. Heck, most of the people I've seen fired for incompetence were able to find new jobs within a few weeks if they'd shipped before.

Re: EA Artist, Soon To Be Laid Off, Burns EA Management, Discusses Failed MMO

#82

Post by whyenot »

It's interesting to read about the internal workings of EA, but the reason WAR failed was because it was an awful game.

Poorly built, buggy, and not fun, unless waiting for an hour next to the mail box to get your mail is your definition of fun. The in-game bug report tool, which we were urged as beta testers to use to write bug reports along with steps to reproduce was limited to But, I think it is wrong to put all the blame for the outcome on EA's execution. I think an additional problem is that Warhammer really wasn't that great an IP. Warhammer is a very dark place and an ugly place. I don't think that is what most people want in a fantasy world. That doesn't mean there wasn't a niche for Warhammer, but it's a smaller niche, and if you also alienate people with poor execution, maybe too small a niche for an MMO to be successful.

Re: EA Artist, Soon To Be Laid Off, Burns EA Management, Discusses Failed MMO

#83

Post by perokreco »

silverbax88 wrote: post #58
pmjordan wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about the enterprise area, but when this happens in the gamedev industry (and it happens a lot), it's extra depressing because 90%+ of the people working on it will have poured their life and soul into it and really care . We're not talking individuals in a sea of office drones. Part of the problem is that "release early, release often" is hard to do when it comes to entertainment products. MMOs & social…

Yes, everyone who works on software for any company other than gaming doesn't "really care" at all. We don't care if your ATM transaction works flawlessly. We don't care if the health monitors keep you alive while you're in a hospital bed. We don't care if you accidentally show up on a police blotter because a database went corrupt somewhere. Nope, but if we were working on games, we would care then.

Your sarcasm is wrong, because you are claiming the converse of what pmjordan claimed. Its a common logical fallacy.

Re: EA Artist, Soon To Be Laid Off, Burns EA Management, Discusses Failed MMO

#84

Post by dasil003 »

gaius wrote: post #71
fleitz wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one thing about large enterprise projects is though, you can usually convince the mismanagers that it's good for their career, and the mismanagers end up disliking the competent programmers. If you're a vulture or a hyena a large IT project can become like a elephant corpse, easy pickings. Convince the mismanagers to move competent people to your team in exchange for your yes men. Then find a piece of infrastruct…

But why would I want to do all these things for the benefit of a toxic organization? That system feeds off people who try to do the right thing, then it chews them up and spits them out. In fact it relies on there being people who will do the right thing even tho' it means extra stress and no extra reward. Organizations like that deserve to collapse under their own weight.

Same reason millionaires want more money: it's about the game.

Re: EA Artist, Soon To Be Laid Off, Burns EA Management, Discusses Failed MMO

#85

Post by _delirium »

gamble wrote: post #81
potatolicious wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in Vancouver, Canada - home of EA's largest office, and knew many people who worked for them. They deliver code because the number of glory-seekers is basically infinite. They can afford to burn people out and abuse them to no end because there are a hojillion more lined up outside the door, just begging for someone to get burned out and leave so they can get in. I also knew some testers, and heard about th…

The games industry is exactly like the TV or movie industry. Entry level jobs really, really suck. But if you can stick around long enough to become established (read: ship a successful title) then you can write your own check. Experienced game developers never lack for good offers. Heck, most of the people I've seen fired for incompetence were able to find new jobs within a few weeks if they'd shipped before.

There's still a lot of burnout, though, because it's very hard to get into a position with significant creative control, even once you get established. You can get a job, but not the job the aspiring designers want. Among well-regarded developers I can think of off the top of my head, Borut Pfeiffer, Chris Hecker, Damian Isla, and Chaim Gingold have all left the AAA-title part of the industry in the past year or two, either to try their hand at indie development, or start a consulting firm.

Re: EA Artist, Soon To Be Laid Off, Burns EA Management, Discusses Failed MMO

#86

Post by nl »

gaius wrote: post #71
fleitz wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one thing about large enterprise projects is though, you can usually convince the mismanagers that it's good for their career, and the mismanagers end up disliking the competent programmers. If you're a vulture or a hyena a large IT project can become like a elephant corpse, easy pickings. Convince the mismanagers to move competent people to your team in exchange for your yes men. Then find a piece of infrastruct…

But why would I want to do all these things for the benefit of a toxic organization? That system feeds off people who try to do the right thing, then it chews them up and spits them out. In fact it relies on there being people who will do the right thing even tho' it means extra stress and no extra reward. Organizations like that deserve to collapse under their own weight.

Not quite.

I read it as a strategy for firewalling off a section of the organisation from the useless people, which enables you do enjoy your work.

Re: EA Artist, Soon To Be Laid Off, Burns EA Management, Discusses Failed MMO

#87

Post by GrandMasterBirt »

Lets see.

1 job I had, the company could not realize that monitors are important for developers.

The next job all managers from every department pointed fingers at other managers until the entire company went bankrupt. They had the best product on the market and the only reason why it would not sell insanely would have to be due to the sales team. They instead did not dogfood and paid a heavy price, when they tried to dogfood they realized too late that everyone is incompetent.

And now I have a very high-up manager shooting himself in the foot with a shotgun.

Re: EA Artist, Soon To Be Laid Off, Burns EA Management, Discusses Failed MMO

#88

Post by losethos »

It's good advice not to bad mouth employers. Many people read too many Dilbert comics and don't appreciate management. The joke's on them.

This comes-off as a gossip story--womanly. Okay, I read it. You probably spent a lot of time at the water cooler?

As general advice, you'll go farther if you see things from management's perspective, otherwise, you sound like a brotherhood loving ignorant blue collar worker who wants to get chummy with his brothers.

Re: EA Artist, Soon To Be Laid Off, Burns EA Management, Discusses Failed MMO

#89

Post by loewenskind »

kemayo wrote: post #76
loewenskind wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The problem with having politicals in senior positions This is a problem having politicals in any position of power what so ever.

The old saw about how the only person who should be in power is the person who doesn't want to be in power, huh?

Well, to be honest I think in some future time people will find it so strange that there was a time when decisions about critical aspects of a country where in the hands of people who were only experts at making people like them.

Re: EA Artist, Soon To Be Laid Off, Burns EA Management, Discusses Failed MMO

#90

Post by gaius »

nl wrote: post #86
gaius wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why would I want to do all these things for the benefit of a toxic organization? That system feeds off people who try to do the right thing, then it chews them up and spits them out. In fact it relies on there being people who will do the right thing even tho' it means extra stress and no extra reward. Organizations like that deserve to collapse under their own weight.

Not quite. I read it as a strategy for firewalling off a section of the organisation from the useless people, which enables you do enjoy your work.

... For the benefit of the management tier above that allowed the toxic situation to develop in the first place. You can bet that you won't see any of the profits yourself, and they're laughing all the way to the bank, they took their eyes off the ball and still scored.
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