Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young • Hacker News Board

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#61

Post by phakding » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 2:27 PM UTC

zeroxfe wrote: post #24

0x4f3759df wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone once made the same point about fitness, you used to have to roll down your windows manually, but now its automatic. More and more muscle functions being eliminated by automation. Add them all up and it makes a difference.

Now that many new cars are coming with have high-def wide-angle rear view cameras, I don't really need my neck muscles anymore. At some point we'll "evolve" to rocks... rocks with wifi.

I am thinking, evolve more like people in WALL-E. Blobs of flesh with no muscle definition or ability to use them.

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#62

Post by CM30 » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 2:29 PM UTC

zeroxfe wrote: post #24

0x4f3759df wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone once made the same point about fitness, you used to have to roll down your windows manually, but now its automatic. More and more muscle functions being eliminated by automation. Add them all up and it makes a difference.

Now that many new cars are coming with have high-def wide-angle rear view cameras, I don't really need my neck muscles anymore. At some point we'll "evolve" to rocks... rocks with wifi.

So basically like the people in WALL•E .

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#63

Post by sidstling » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 2:30 PM UTC

dghughes wrote: post #28

PeterStuer wrote: post #4

Another thing I wondered about is the impact of automation and volatility on, for lack of a better word 'involuntary' micro social interactions. Until fairly recently people had 'forced' social interactions when doing their finances, shopping etc. Even if involuntary they 'trained' people's social skills and withered away at their acquired/innate social anxiety. Furthermore, even in these situations the persons you i…

I agree with you 100% but I have an interesting personal anecdote, pretty much the opposite. When I was young I was very shy, painfully shy even into my early 20s. All social outings were family reunions or church. But I liked computers. So in the early 1990s I bought a computer and tried this thing called the Internet. By chance I discovered IRC. It was a world of strangers who interacted in real time. I could conve…

I think it’s fair to consider IRC a social tool. It’s build around small communities made up of people who both belong to and run the various rooms. So within that you have a social structure, you have familiarity and you have social hierarchies.

This is different from most “social” platforms on the modern web. Reddit, twitter, Facebook, Snapchat, instagram, hackernews and so on are all global villages, operated by a centralized organ which doesn’t really moderate. So you have anarchy, no-familiarity, no structure and no real visible hierarchy.

When you were on IRC you’d meet the same people every day, you got to know them and they you. By contrast we probably won’t ever run into each other again once we finish this specific conversation. You might not even read my post unless you specifically chose to do so.

A lot of the internet is like this now, and there is really nothing social about most social media.

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#64

Post by gnulinux » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 2:34 PM UTC

kadendogthing wrote: post #40

nickjj wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cool thing is, you can still do all of those things today. There's really nothing stopping you from walking into a grocery store and talking to people if you want. You could also go outside for a walk to get some exercise. You'll meet plenty of people along the way (unless you live in the middle of no where).

>There's really nothing stopping you OP's point was that there's nothing forcing us to do those things, not that there are now barriers. > You'll meet plenty of people along the way If you talk to anyone walking/running in city centers prepare for harsh stares and people walking ever so slightly faster to get away from the presumably crazy guy. At least that's most definitely how I would react.

I think this is a cultural thing. I grew up somewhere around Europe and random people talking to me on the street would be a big nono, I would run for my life; would definitely at least give a weird look and increase my speed. When I moved into the Bay Area for undergrad I saw this is completely normal here. So, I started talking to randoms too, and it usually feels very much when you feel lonely and at the supermarket and some dude asks about what you're cooking tonight.

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#65

Post by 0x4f3759df » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 2:34 PM UTC

kuschku wrote: post #54

onion2k wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More and more muscle functions being eliminated by automation. Only trivially small ones that we'd do a few times a week. There's still lots of physical activity that we do (eg walking around, carrying things like shopping, sex, etc). Plus, many people have replaced the small manual activities like opening car windows with going to the gym. Anyone who has a sedentary desk job but tries to live a relatively healthy li…

> Only trivially small ones that we'd do a few times a week. There's still lots of physical activity that we do (eg walking around, carrying things like shopping, sex, etc). Not everywhere — one of the major reasons fitness (and BMI) is correlated with walkability of a city is that in many typical US cities, you barely have to walk anymore, while in the more walkable cities driving is less possible, and you’ll walk o…

Most of the US is low-density and built for cars, so not a lot of walking happening. Also some people in the city will take a Bird or Lyft scooter automating out walking

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#66

Post by yorwba » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 2:35 PM UTC

furi wrote: post #51

hardwaresofton wrote: post #21

This problem seems like it would be perfectly solvable with an app, but one could argue that it's the increased usage of apps (rather than the in-person meeting) that got us here. Even apps like LivingSocial seemed to fizzle out relatively quickly, but mostly-messaging-and-narcissism apps like Instagram/Snapchat are the ones that came to stay. A part of me still wants to believe that some app that did nothing but mat…

I read a very insightful comment on a previous similar thread about this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17682648 The short of it is that any platform you build to make friends (at least if you take the naive approach and just build a dating app for friends) turns into a dating platform. It certainly matches how I interested I am in new people I meet online despite having a partner already. My hypothesis is tha…

And if that platform doesn't take steps to rate-limit its users, it will likely become a dating platform only for gay men. At least that's what I observed when I tried WeChat's "people nearby" feature in Berlin. The first thing I noticed was that almost everyone was male. The second, that many of those men had a signature that implied they were looking for gay sex.

My guess is that such a feature will be abused by some men who send messages to a large number of women, causing them to feel harassed by the onslaught and leave. Then the straight men notice that there are fewer and fewer women, so they stop using it as well. Then the people left over are mostly gay men.

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#67

Post by TimTheTinker » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 2:36 PM UTC

nickjj wrote: post #50

dannyw wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn’t address the point - which is that as a whole, micro-interactions are reducing. Just because you have the option, doesn’t mean people are doing it as much.

> That doesn’t address the point - which is that as a whole, micro-interactions are reducing. Just because you have the option, doesn’t mean people are doing it as much. It doesn't matter if people aren't doing it as much. It only matters what you're doing. If you goto the grocery store, or the bank, or a shop or anything like that, there's always going to be tellers handling customers. Your opportunities haven't gon…

> It doesn't matter if people aren't doing it as much.

Yes it does. Threads of society are being cut, which is not only causing loneliness, but also emotional distancing, political polarization, demonizing folks in other camps, etc.

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#68

Post by 80386 » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 2:38 PM UTC

dannyw wrote: post #42

djsumdog wrote: post #16

There's no indication in this short write up if they also surveyed how often people get out. I think it'd be a likely hypothesis that people today do hang out more with friends, simply because it is easier. Remember the 90s? You're waiting in a parking lot to go caving. "Where's Will?" "I don't know." "Call his house, there's a payphone over there." "His mom said he left 30 minutes ago." "Well I guess we'll just wait…

I think you’re spot on with online dating. It’s not a stretch that it only works for attractive people, when the whole screening test is attractiveness.

Is the whole screening test attractiveness?

I tried OKCupid a while ago, and came away with the impression that most people have their profile filled with political shibboleths. Maybe that's just because I live in a major coastal city, but...

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#69

Post by ada1981 » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 2:39 PM UTC

dclowd9901 wrote: post #30

ada1981 wrote: post #2

If anyone is looking for adventure and connection, I run a group called Founders Hike, which is what it sounds like. Founders get together to mastermind, hike and support each other about once a month. We have some really successful and amazing Founders. Nature is it’s own medicine, the community is great, and the wisdom runs deep. NYC / SF and chapters forming in other cities. Email me if you’d like to join, and I’l…

I can think of nothing more insufferable than being surrounded by wealthy people who are business-driven. Why does it have to be a “founders” hike? Why can’t people just fucking get together and hike?

Of course, I also go on hikes and you are welcome to do so.

But I’ve found that there are certain problems and issues that come up for founders that non-founders can’t really support.

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#70

Post by ellius » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 2:41 PM UTC

dclowd9901 wrote: post #26

djsumdog wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, that's a sitcom. I think modern shows like BoJack Horseman are really good interpretations on how poorly those types of stories represented reality.

While I agree wholeheartedly, I cant help but think how funny it is that an absurdist cartoon with talking animals more accurately represents relationship stories.

It's counterintuitive but a pretty well-known phenomenon. The finest cartoons provide a unique window into some aspect of human culture. The Simpsons, Futurama, King of the Hill—they all were entertaining, but the best episodes talked about something serious under the guise of humor. Science fiction is the same way. Star Trek isn't about aliens; it's about us.