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Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

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Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

#51
post #20

Tech companies used the same strategy in the 1970s, offering employees high salaries and sweet perks to make collective action less appetizing. That doesn't make sense to me... I think it's more likely that tech workers get higher salaries because they were/are in high demand, not to prevent unionization. Employees suspected Lanetix planned to fire lower-level female engineers, many of whom graduated from Hackbright,…

> That doesn't make sense to me... I think it's more likely that tech workers get higher salaries because they were/are in high demand, not to prevent unionization.

The inverse is exactly that, though. Higher wages give certain skilled individuals enough personal comfort to the point that they don't feel they need to stick their neck out for some group of randos. Sure, that $125k job with a small sack of RSUs looks pretty on paper, but break it down with all of the extra-curricular obligations, the occasional long week that happens a little too often, housing costs, commuting, and it doesn't look too appealing.

Once you have enough 'highly' paid individuals in a group -- we'll cut the number at $100k, even though that's the poverty level in the Bay Area -- then a backbuilding narrative begins to create itself, that because 'everyone' is at a a certain level, it's kind of just okay.

The trope of high demand, low supply of qualified individuals is pervasive in tech recruiting, to the point where some of the same individuals being oppressed question if there's an actual problem. It could also be explained away as that we're all just that unique and special, but that's stitching together another reality entirely.

Instead of agreeing that fellow humans are being oppressed, we tech workers muse and question the merit of sticking together, for one another. We question the quality of one's skills or ability to comprehend with not another thought. We even sometimes question if we're overly compensated, when overt actions or results would prove otherwise.

Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

#53
post #20

Tech companies used the same strategy in the 1970s, offering employees high salaries and sweet perks to make collective action less appetizing. That doesn't make sense to me... I think it's more likely that tech workers get higher salaries because they were/are in high demand, not to prevent unionization. Employees suspected Lanetix planned to fire lower-level female engineers, many of whom graduated from Hackbright,…

Holy moly, $16k for 12 weeks? That's a few thousand more than in-state tuition for a year at Berkeley (or any UC for that matter).

Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

#54
post #45

I'm firmly convinced that tech workers will come around to unionizing once they accidentally reinvent it under a different name

Genuine question: Do other high-skilled professions have unions (like marketeers, scientists, lawyers, doctors, electrical engineers, ...)?

Engineers, Lawyers and Doctors have professional associations rather than unions. Arguably, this is what software engineer should have. The American Medical Association (AMA) is extraordinarily influential.

Edit: one could argue the difference between a professional association and a union is a matter of degrees. A professional association certainly seems an easier sell. Possibly a professional association with aspects of a union could be considered.

Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

#55
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What tangible benefits would the average tech worker get? What benefits would a FAANGer get? Not surprisingly I work in tech. I'm not morally opposed to unions - I just don't see how they would make my life any better.

I used to work at Google. Without going into specifics in this public of a forum, yes I've personally witnessed examples of unjustified pay disparities, due to arbitrary factors uncorrelated with job qualifications or performance. At the very least, collective assistance could be very useful at Google in negotiating fair compensation for new hires and in sustaining that fairness over time based on performance data. A…

Won't unions level out pay contrary to disparities in talent?

Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

#56
post #45

I'm firmly convinced that tech workers will come around to unionizing once they accidentally reinvent it under a different name

Genuine question: Do other high-skilled professions have unions (like marketeers, scientists, lawyers, doctors, electrical engineers, ...)?

Pro-athletes and Hollywood stars

Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

#57
post #52

Not sure about it but why do they want to establish a union? History teaches us that trade unions are mafia-like structures. The cure that is much worse than the desease.

It's interesting. When I think of unions, I think of corruption. But when I think of "Gewerkschaft" (simply the German word for union) I think of worker protection.

Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's the point; it isn't at all. It is, in fact, pure speculation based on information that is missing from the article. The fact that the article is missing such important information could be because it's not available, or it might not fit the author's agenda. The company is very clearly in the wrong here; I'm taking issue with the heavy handedness of forcing gender into a story that, based on the evidence presen…

It’s not pure speculation- it’s the worker’s side of the story. You can’t discredit their experience because the other side behaved in such a brazenly stupid fashion that they’re probably being advised to not speak to the press at all. Even if management’s perspective was included in the article, corresponded to your framing, the same would hold true. Your skepticism isn’t really skepticism when it leans consistently…

What is there to be skeptical about regarding the management? We know nothing about their motives, only a few facts. Without the remaining facts, or their perspective, there's nothing to be skeptical about.

I've tried to be clear that I'm open to the possibility that this really is about sexism. I don't think that exclusively presenting one side of the story will lead us to the truth, though.

Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

#59
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to work at Google. Without going into specifics in this public of a forum, yes I've personally witnessed examples of unjustified pay disparities, due to arbitrary factors uncorrelated with job qualifications or performance. At the very least, collective assistance could be very useful at Google in negotiating fair compensation for new hires and in sustaining that fairness over time based on performance data. A…

Won't unions level out pay contrary to disparities in talent?

I think you're referring to the fossilized rigidity I intended to reject in my last two sentences. A rigid pay scale is merely common in US unionism, not required.

Also, be careful not to confuse talent with performance. A slacker with amazing talent can still underperform whoever works diligently to improve and apply their skills.

Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

#60
post #45

I'm firmly convinced that tech workers will come around to unionizing once they accidentally reinvent it under a different name

Genuine question: Do other high-skilled professions have unions (like marketeers, scientists, lawyers, doctors, electrical engineers, ...)?

Doctors do. And the terrible influence the AMA has had has warned me off professional unions for life. Never again.
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