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Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

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Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#241

Post by vkou »

lmm wrote: post #166
strig wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this not considered fraud or theft?

Because Google is a private company and allowed to delete videos whenever they like (assuming you don't have a contract where they've agreed to host them for you or anything like that). IMO YouTube ought to be regulated the same way as broadcast media used to, with things like the equal-time rule, but that's not the rule as it currently stands.

How will you apply the equal time rule to political viewpoints?

To every political question, there are more answers then "A" or "B".

Are you going to give equal time to someone who wants to ban all guns, someone who wants to ban all guns in cities, someone who wants to ban all guns for people with criminal records, but not mental illnesses, someone who wants to ban all guns for people with mental illnesses, but not criminal records, someone who wants to ban guns for non-citizens, and someone who wants everyone to have a state-provided machine-gun? What about the other permutation of these viewpoints? Or are you just going to dump these questions into a 'left' and 'right' bucket, and say you're done, when the buckets weigh the same?

Relatedly: it's also much easier to come up with factually incorrect bullshit then it is to refute it. Any insights on how you want to deal with that problem?

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#242

Post by zaarn »

ConceptJunkie wrote: post #222
zaarn wrote: post #51

Easy and stupid solution: Make it illegal to falsely claim copyright on a piece of media and additionally make transparent and fair processes around Notice&Takedown required for all larger platforms. Youtube's DMCA mechanism is a black box, you get told you did some bad and you can say "no I didn't do bad" at which point the black box will do things and after a few days agree or not. If someone files a copyright clai…

> Make it illegal to falsely claim copyright on a piece of media and additionally make transparent and fair processes around Notice&Takedown required for all larger platforms. I wouldn't be surprised if those things are already illegal, but enforcing them turns out to be too hard. Laws you can't enforce are meaningless.

It is illegal if you did it maliciously (IIRC from the DMCA texts), but good luck trying to prove to a court that the DMCA notice was filed with malicious intent.

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#243

Post by toss1 »

digi_owl wrote: post #225
ocharles wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait what the hell - getting blocked on YouTube would stop you reading your GMail? Did I really read that correctly?

Yep. You do not have an account on each, you have a Google account that allows you to access all of google's services. And once it is closed, it is game over. Most people didn't notice this until G+ hit the net, and some kids used their gmail account (set up with parental knowledge and support) got closed because G+ found out they were under 13. Others have discovered that if their app on Google Play gets into troubl…

And this is specifically why, as I select for my biz an upgraded email service provider, even though Google/GMail has a solid service & good prices, they are completely disqualified.

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#244

Post by gumby »

Seems like anybody who receives a serious number (say, 5) of bogus TD requests from one entity could sue them for restitution for time spent. Of course the counterparty (bogus filer) won't show up so the plaintiff will get a default judgment. You could ask for an injunction and court costs or reimbursement and court costs.

Sounds like a lot of work and of course it would be (though you do get your costs back) but if a few people do this and win, and then go seize assets with the sheriff (like a guy in Florida did to Bank of America in the housing crisis) it would get public attention. I wonder if small claims can issue an injunction or only cash awards.

I don't know if the system in Germany can support this kind of thing. The German right agency (GEMA) is particularly bad.

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#245

Post by toss1 »

dalore wrote: post #199
ekianjo wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems? More like its mainly used in this way nowadays. There is no risk in sending DMCA notices so of course its abused.

Wonder if we can return the favour? If someone sends us an obvious unfair takedown (like in the article) we can name and shame them. And also do the same tactics, go to their content and report it as violation of your content. Even if it doesn't they still have to respond and go through the same hoops. If a group of us formed and we did this to all of them and gunged up the system, google would be forced to improve i…

Perhaps an automated system like the defunct BlueFrog anti-spam system (which worked too well)?

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#246

Post by vkou »

ConceptJunkie wrote: post #179
lmm wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Google is a private company and allowed to delete videos whenever they like (assuming you don't have a contract where they've agreed to host them for you or anything like that). IMO YouTube ought to be regulated the same way as broadcast media used to, with things like the equal-time rule, but that's not the rule as it currently stands.

The Equal Time rule was strictly for political candidates. Perhaps you're thinking of the Fairness Doctrine, which only made sense when broadcast media were very limited. There's got to be a good way to get Google to stop censoring one side of the political spectrum, but if we have to resort to legislation or regulation, we're doing it wrong. If we can't, then I guess Google really is too powerful. Edit: Google is ev…

The Fairness Doctrine never made any sense. It only required that contrasting viewpoints be presented for an issue of public import.

You could satisfy it, by discussing, say, gun control, and presenting two contrasting viewpoints: One that all guns should be banned, and one that all guns, except for ones used by police and security guards should be banned. A distinction without much of a difference (That is well within the scope of very limited political orthodoxy) is a contrasting viewpoint.

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#247

Post by notriddle »

toss1 wrote: post #243
digi_owl wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. You do not have an account on each, you have a Google account that allows you to access all of google's services. And once it is closed, it is game over. Most people didn't notice this until G+ hit the net, and some kids used their gmail account (set up with parental knowledge and support) got closed because G+ found out they were under 13. Others have discovered that if their app on Google Play gets into troubl…

And this is specifically why, as I select for my biz an upgraded email service provider, even though Google/GMail has a solid service & good prices, they are completely disqualified.

Yeah. I am personally abandoning GMail specifically because I want to be able to upload stuff to YouTube.

You know a company is mismanaging things when they're doing things that are against their own interests.

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#248

Post by ThrustVectoring »

Timmah wrote: post #239
jstarfish wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And also do the same tactics, go to their content and report it as violation of your content. This might work between rival game streamers or something but the law offices of Dewey, Cheatem & Howe likely do not have a YouTube channel for you to retaliate against.

But you could find out who is legitimately using that copyright on YT and retaliate against them. For instance, if you use a clip of a Prince song that is taken down, and you determine that BMG music owns the Prince catalog, you could send automated infringement requests against PrinceVEVO or any official BMG uploads. Even better if you created a "burner" corporation. Ie P.O. box in Delaware and act on their behalf.…

YouTube is far more broken for small to medium content creators than the big guns.

IMO the way to go is to get their contact details out of the copyright claim and sue them in small claims court.

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#249

Post by tim333 »

astura wrote: post #70

Copyright claims have become out of control! Someone uploaded white noise they recorded to YouTube and got five copyright claims. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-42580523

From that:

>Google automatically makes claims on behalf of content creators if its algorithms find a close match between the content of two videos.

That seems to the the root cause of a lot of these problems - Google's software being dumb.

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#250

Post by mehrdadn »

notriddle wrote: post #247
toss1 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is specifically why, as I select for my biz an upgraded email service provider, even though Google/GMail has a solid service & good prices, they are completely disqualified.

Yeah. I am personally abandoning GMail specifically because I want to be able to upload stuff to YouTube. You know a company is mismanaging things when they're doing things that are against their own interests .

> I am personally abandoning GMail specifically because I want to be able to upload stuff to YouTube

Can't you just make another account for videos?

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