Live data from Hacker News

Silicon Inquiry: A personal inquiry into the tech industry

notesfrombelow.org

11–20 of 28 posts

Re: Silicon Inquiry: A personal inquiry into the tech industry

#11
post #9

This article does a great job of highlighting how broken the message is for people coming into the market these days. From the article: Google was supposed to be the goal, the reward people worked so hard for. When I was at Google and after I left people would ask me, "How can I get a job at Google?" or "Can you get my resume to someone at Google?" And I would always ask this person "Why do you want to work at Google…

> just piling on solving the same problem that others are solving, whether that is intermediating between buyers and sellers (I think of these as virtual market makers) or greasing ecommerce (branding, virality, advertising, shipping/billing logistics, Etc.)

And yet, those are also enormously important problems to solve.

What made Amazon worth billions of dollars to millions of people?

Logistics.

What made Facebook worth billions of dollars to millions of people?

Logistics.

What made Airbnb worth billions of dollars to millions of people?

Logistics.

What made Netflix worth billions of dollars to millions of people?

Logistics.

What made Uber worth billions of dollars to millions of people?

Logistics.

Why did some people think computers were a fad, or the Internet was a fad?

Because they vastly underestimated the tremendous importance of automation, communication, and coordination to mankind.

Re: Silicon Inquiry: A personal inquiry into the tech industry

#12
While I myself was not part of a union, I have worked for a company that had a large-ish ( order of 100's) unionized software engineering team. It did not create a better dynamic. If the goal is to have a union that contains both high paid and low paid employees to that the more highly paid employees speak up for the others, that certainly didn't happen.

I'm proud to say I work for Amazon. It's not a perfect place. That doesn't mean there aren't many good things about it. Universally when I tell people that I work for Amazon, they tell me how much easier we make life for them as customers; how it's really hard to get a baby in the car to buy diapers and how Amazon's ease of use and delivery saves them many trips to a store each week; how much they love Echo, Kindle, AWS, Prime or one of the many other services we offer. I work for a team that builds primarily internally facing tools, and our team has been told that we're "doing the Lord's work" and I have been asked to hug one of my teammates by our internal customers because of a new feature my teammate pushed out.

So, no, I don't think it has to be so soul crushing as the article makes it out to be.

Re: Silicon Inquiry: A personal inquiry into the tech industry

#13
post #9

This article does a great job of highlighting how broken the message is for people coming into the market these days. From the article: Google was supposed to be the goal, the reward people worked so hard for. When I was at Google and after I left people would ask me, "How can I get a job at Google?" or "Can you get my resume to someone at Google?" And I would always ask this person "Why do you want to work at Google…

>> Engineers are people that take existing practice and solve problems that other people are having in a way that is better than the previous solution.

Hey, thanks for this, I'm going to have to write it down somewhere.

Hopefully my calling attention to it doesn't result in a dogpile of "That's not what 'engineer' means", because the reason I call it out is that it's what I'm usually trying to say when I use the word 'engineer'.

Re: Silicon Inquiry: A personal inquiry into the tech industry

#15
I was only working because the company was paying me to. In Marxist terms, I was alienated from my labour: forced to think about a problem I didn’t personally have a stake in, in a very typically corporate environment that drained all the motivation out of me. I remember thinking: is this it?

Ouch-I'm sorry to read that she feels so beleaguered. While I can certainly empathize with that conundrum, this feels to me not so much like a problem with tech (as this was presented in the context of a deep personal exploration of one's participation as a tech worker), but perhaps an opportunity to sit back and analyze one's participation with work as a concept itself.

It brings to mind this[1] letter written by Hunter S Thompson where he said:

So if you now number yourself among the disenchanted, then you have no choice but to accept things as they are, or to seriously seek something else. But beware of looking for goals: look for a way of life. Decide how you want to live and then see what you can do to make a living WITHIN that way of life

This isn't to hold the good Doctor up as some universal bearer of truth (he had his issues that probably cast a bit of a cloud over some of his pieces of advice), but this one rings loudly for me as someone who doesn't really look at his career field of software engineering as a personal definition, but simply a vehicle that enables me to do the sort of things I want. It's a parenthetical, a sidebar, it isn't the paragraph that describes who I am as `iamdave`. But as I look at my peers (older millennials-what's the new word now? xennial? I'm 35, what am I? Weren't we once Gen Y? I feel emotionally closer to Gen X. Surely the marketers will have a new term for it come next Tuesday and we'll all be using that. Hrm...I'm getting off topic here), I see so much frustration, anxiety and anger because their careers are defining them with little further introspection than that.

Said another way: I just happen to be a software engineer, it's by no means a passion, it's not where my heart is, it's not what I wake up every day thinking about-I just happen to be good enough at it to earn a living doing it and pay for school to learn about the types of things that do excite and thrill me on a meaningful personal level. I also don't inherently dread it, nor do I loathe going to work every day-either. Granted it took a long time to get to this state of mind but my personal happiness has skyrocketed once the realization took hold.

Now I say that not to accuse or suggest that my peers are wrong for this; what's good for the goose may not be good for the gander, nor am I saying my approach is universal or should be the standard for all others-but it does seem to be a mitigating factor from the type of...can't think of a better word here...existential exhaustion this young(er) writer seems to be experiencing.

Curious to hear what others think?

--- [1] https://tranquilmonkey.com/hunter-s-thompsons-extraordinary-...

Re: Silicon Inquiry: A personal inquiry into the tech industry

#16
post #9

This article does a great job of highlighting how broken the message is for people coming into the market these days. From the article: Google was supposed to be the goal, the reward people worked so hard for. When I was at Google and after I left people would ask me, "How can I get a job at Google?" or "Can you get my resume to someone at Google?" And I would always ask this person "Why do you want to work at Google…

> just piling on solving the same problem that others are solving, whether that is intermediating between buyers and sellers (I think of these as virtual market makers) or greasing ecommerce (branding, virality, advertising, shipping/billing logistics, Etc.) And yet, those are also enormously important problems to solve. What made Amazon worth billions of dollars to millions of people? Logistics. What made Facebook w…

A fact easily papered over by politicians or social 'free-thinkers' with an eye for scapegoats and the naivete to think they can do better by tearing it all down and doing it all from scratch.

(An interesting note is that this carries all the dangers of the oft-warned-against 'big rewrite', but on an even larger scale.)

Re: Silicon Inquiry: A personal inquiry into the tech industry

#17
> What else was I supposed to look forward to, except mindless consumption? Wasn’t that the whole point of making that much money? Wasn’t that what drove people to work so hard in the first place?

If you think money is only for mindless consumption, I wonder if you have experienced life with real responsibilities (mortgage, family, kids) and little money. Because while money doesn't get you everything, it can get you a lot of important things - most important ones being freedom and time. And if you have ability to ride on this current tech boom, one should ride it to the fullest and save as much as you can (unless one is too rich already or is too young to appreciate life's constraints).

Re: Silicon Inquiry: A personal inquiry into the tech industry

#19
post #10

Tangent: the way the author talks about sites like Reddit and 4chan and certain personalities as elements from a type of internet "hey day" makes me feel....old. I recall reading Atwood's piece in 2007 like it was yesterday, even though it was a decade ago now in actual time-passed. Only brought up because I've felt similarly disillusioned with my participation in tech lately, but I wonder if that's just due to growi…

[deleted]

Re: Silicon Inquiry: A personal inquiry into the tech industry

#20

While I myself was not part of a union, I have worked for a company that had a large-ish ( order of 100's) unionized software engineering team. It did not create a better dynamic. If the goal is to have a union that contains both high paid and low paid employees to that the more highly paid employees speak up for the others, that certainly didn't happen. I'm proud to say I work for Amazon. It's not a perfect place. T…

I don't know that there needs to be a union per-se (it's actually never brought up in the article at all), but collective bargaining can work without one, on a company level.

It would take a tremendous effort to make that change within a company like Amazon, but that company is probably one of the best examples where that change needs to happen.

Costco is an example of a company where even the lowest paid employees are still fairly compensated, are guaranteed vacation, and receive good benefits.

It's the company culture and values that dictates how the lowest paid employees are treated, and that can be directed and redefined, at least according to the author, in large part by the highest paid employees.

Post reply on HN