Live data from Hacker News

Java is still available at zero-cost

blog.joda.org

151–160 of 164 posts

Re: Java is still available at zero-cost

#151

On a scale from 1 - 10 it gonna suck 15 when the tech you rely on is being bought by Oracle.

Actually Java got saved by Oracle, and Java 8 would never happened under Sun management. let's say Java got mush mush better under Oracle. i know how hard the truth is by telling someone Oracle did something good but actually it did.

Re: Java is still available at zero-cost

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what your preferred alternative to Java is?

.Net Core. It’s maintained by a company that actually knows how to support a platform.

Isn't .Net Core has 3 years LTS support? and Java LTS are 4 years support? and are you comparing the huge ecosystem around Java by .Net Core?

Re: Java is still available at zero-cost

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The drive to move quickly with software wasn't to keep up with ever changing hardware, it was to respond quickly to the market. Treat every release like an experiment. The more experiments you can run the more likely you are to understand and solve the needs of your users. Why would someone pick software that get feature releases and bug fixes on a yearly cycle when similar software is available that has weekly or da…

>The more experiments you can run the more likely you are to understand and solve the needs of your users. There is an interesting chapter for this in Donella Meadows thinking in Systems Oscillations! A single step up in sales causes inventory to drop. The car dealer watches long enough to be sure the higher sales rate is going to last. Then she begins to order more cars to both cover the new rate of sales and bring…

We're talking about two completely different things here. I'm talking about responding to direct customer requests differently which strikes me (potentially naively) as a different thing than managing a supply chain.

Re: Java is still available at zero-cost

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.Net Core. It’s maintained by a company that actually knows how to support a platform.

The alternative is, and always has been, a language and runtime lib that is spec'd in the open and has multiple implementations to choose from. Though choices have become limited. Only C, C++, and JavaScript seem to fit the bill AFAICS.

Python as well

Re: Java is still available at zero-cost

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft broke backwards compatibility when they introduced generics in .NET 2.0. Java, on the other hand, is still getting flac for refusing the break backwards compatibility to introduce reified generics.

Which to me is a good thing, Microsoft ripped the band-aid early and got it over with instead of delaying the inevitable.

I think generics in Java works pretty well.

Should it have been there from the beginning. Yes, but it would have delayed the release of JDK 1.0.

People often complain about type erasure, but I have seen very few examples of everyday programming where it would have helped. I think type erasure was a reasonable compromise.

The only real use case I can see is value types.

You want List to be backed by array of ints, not Integer objects. But there are already plans to add this to JVM, once value types are added.

Re: Java is still available at zero-cost

#156
post #53
post #43

Honest question: How often do people upgrade their production language? Me: once in a decade, maybe. I'm still perfectly happy (and productive) with C# 3.5, Java 7 and Python 2. I'm grudgingly moving forward because the old toolchains are being deprecated now, but my codes aren't significantly improved because of a few fancy idioms available in a new language, and it barely affects the design decisions. Upgrading you…

Not that I rush into using the newest C# language features... But C# > 3.5 has some great changes that are very easy to learn and worthwhile. The new string interpolation feature is so good I don't even allow old-style string.Formats in code reviews.

> The new string interpolation feature is so good I don't even allow old-style string.Formats in code reviews.

String interpolation doesn't fully replace String.Format, because it does not provide a way to re-arrange where the placeholders go in the format string, which is important for localization.

Re: Java is still available at zero-cost

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fast: from C++11 to C++14 to C++17 soon.. The problem is that if you stay on old language versions, you're doomed soon or later (see the world moving to Python 3.7, Java 11, C#7, Go 2,..). If you consider then JavaScript, things are moving at speed of light. Today's framework might be ancient in a couple of months (React version??)

> if you stay on old language versions, you're doomed soon or later (see the world moving to [...] Go 2) Go 2 is notable on that list because the Go developers have already promised that all Go 1 code will continue to compile and work with Go 2. It's not a 2.0, it's more like 1.15 or 1.20. I guess they learned from the Python 2->3 transition.

It's not a "learned" thing. Go can pull it off, because it's much younger, and doesn't have so much accumulated cruft. Eventually they will - and then they would either have to make the decision to break compatibility in some future major release - or become the next Java in a sense that there are parts of the language and the library that are warts upon warts, that no new code will ever use, and that confuse new developers, but which are needed for old code to run.

Re: Java is still available at zero-cost

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.Net Core. It’s maintained by a company that actually knows how to support a platform.

Isn't .Net Core has 3 years LTS support? and Java LTS are 4 years support? and are you comparing the huge ecosystem around Java by .Net Core?

You aren’t paying Microsoft for long term support for those three years.

Are you saying that .Net doesn’t have a robust ecosystem?

Re: Java is still available at zero-cost

#159
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the JavaScript world people use those holiday chocolate calendar things to count the days until a new version of their favorite compiler will come out and can't sleep the night before because they want to be sure they can update at the very instant the release is dropped (and then proceed to complain that their favorite framework didn't update for the quirks of the new compiler in a timely manner). I wish I was co…

Yep, and that's why JS is moving and everyone else is biting the dust lol. Progress needs to be made and those who can't follow don't have the right to complain really. Old tools are always available because language compatibility is preserved (which, imo should also be dropped, we would have much better language as a result). We also stick to LTS (in my case node LTS)

JavaScript is slow as hell

Re: Java is still available at zero-cost

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative is, and always has been, a language and runtime lib that is spec'd in the open and has multiple implementations to choose from. Though choices have become limited. Only C, C++, and JavaScript seem to fit the bill AFAICS.

Or LISP.

Common Lisp?
Post reply on HN