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Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

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Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#131

Post by Zigurd »

yoz-y wrote: post #28
Zigurd wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Are you going to tell them they have no right to their own work anymore 20 years after they had one of their most successful releases?" In a word, yes. The entire purpose of copyright is to enrich the commons by granting a limited term monopoly. Without that purpose in mind, copyright loses legitimacy. It's a government granted right, and, in the US, there is specific authorization in the constitution to make such a…

All rights, human rights included, are just some arbitrary rules some part of humans have decided to follow. These laws could also set the counter for let's say 5 years after the death of all of the original authors or something like that. There is no reason for these rights to transfer indefinitely.

In many constitutional systems, rights are assumed to exist, and rights are protected by wording that prohibit the government from infringing them.

That's not how patents and copyright work. These are government granted monopolies. The wording goes the other way around: The government is authorized to grant these monopolies. That's very unlike rights to life, property, etc. Patents and copyright don't come from the same tradition as proper human rights. They're different, and there is no human rights argument against limiting them sharply, at least not in the US constitution.

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#132

Post by EADGBE »

matwood wrote: post #109
richrichardsson wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No I cannot, but conversely can you prove that is has not? All I can proffer is anecdote that as bandwidth and the ubiquity of Internet increased over the years, the sales of music via the label I'm involved with diminished. All the while our artists and the label itself became more and more popular, so it seems entirely counter inuitive that sales should have been dropping.

The album is dead. Paid streaming is booming.

Albums aren't dead. Luckily, I can stream those too.

It's just more convenient. "Hey Siri, play the latest album by X" still works. Thank God.

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#133

Post by tremon »

YokoZar wrote: post #19
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Given how quickly music becomes "old" I don't understand why copyright needs to chain up music any longer than two decades You say that but the Beatles, Elvis, Beethoven, Pink Floyd, Michael Jackson are all artists that had their heyday 30-60 years ago and are still the top selling artists. A lot of them are dead now because of varying reasons, but some are still alive and kicking and giving new performances of the…

> Are you going to tell them they have no right to their own work anymore 20 years after they had one of their most successful releases? Are you claiming they wouldn't have made the music otherwise? It's hard to imagine such megastars deciding that the marginal effort of another hit album just wasn't worth making unless they could collect hypothetical revenue for more than 2 decades. Copyright law is to incentivize c…

Copyright law is to incentivize creating these works so that more stuff can get into the public domain.

You've drank too much kool-aid. Copyright law is to incentivize investments in creative works, not the creation itself. Most people that profit off of creative works have not created anything of value themselves.

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#134

Post by EADGBE »

grawprog wrote: post #113
richrichardsson wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No I cannot, but conversely can you prove that is has not? All I can proffer is anecdote that as bandwidth and the ubiquity of Internet increased over the years, the sales of music via the label I'm involved with diminished. All the while our artists and the label itself became more and more popular, so it seems entirely counter inuitive that sales should have been dropping.

I don't buy music from labels or online shops. I go to either an artists website or somewhere the artists will directly get the money from it or i'll buy albums from shows. I've probably paid for more music in the last few years than I did most of the time as a teenager. I feel a lot better giving my money to people who are more directly involved in creating the music than large companies that produce albums for them…

Labels get their money regardless of where you buy it from if they have a stake in the album/band.

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#135

Post by cninja »

ObsoleteNerd wrote: post #107
dotancohen wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who was sending these notices? Sounds like perjury to me.

Welcome to the DMCA. It's as broken as copyright and causing quite serious stifling of young creators. It sometimes feels like it's used more for evil than for its legitimate purpose.

Takedown notices on Youtube are not handled under DCMA. DCMA has protections against false accusations.

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#136

Post by jobigoud »

dotancohen wrote: post #52
Jerry2 wrote: post #37

I used to have a Youtube channel where I posted videos of me playing the piano. I played mostly Mozart, Beethoven and Rachmaninoff compositions. I had around 40 videos in total. Sometime around 2014, I started getting DMCA takedown notices from various companies claiming copyright. I was getting one or two per week and I contested them and things were ruled into my favor. But then it started getting harder and harder…

Who was sending these notices? Sounds like perjury to me.

YouTube partners can upload a collection of files they claim rights on, and a YouTube bot will check any newly published video against anything in that database.

It's all automated. They don't verify if the claimant actually has the rights, this is left to the "dispute" process.

Sometimes multiple companies upload the same files. Sometimes the algorithm has false positives because the section of audio used is too short.

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#137

Post by EADGBE »

FreakyT wrote: post #85
jaxtellerSoA wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Copyright should only have a term of life (with a minimum duration of 50 years in case the artist dies at 20-30) and that's all. Boy you are generous, if it was up to me copyrights would have a life of 10 years, no extensions/renewals. Ten years ought to be enough to squeeze a healthy chuck of profits out of your material. If after 10 years you can't/haven't come up with anything new, then you better find a new job…

Agreed -- in addition, a shorter term like this fixes a major issue with using "life" specifically, which ends up unintentionally creating an incentive to murder the creator.

It'd be better to be able to by stock in an artist, and continue to let them live and create, while profiting yourself off those dividends.

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#138

Post by briandear »

Mindwipe wrote: post #120
tallanvor wrote: post #24

It seems to me that a big part of the problem is that Google is focusing on this the wrong way. Rather than automatically assume that ContentID is correct and notifying the user, it should instead notify the supposed owner of the music, and let them decide whether or not to make a claim. If the "owner" makes too many false claims then they should be banned form the service.

The problem is fundamentally that ContentID is done on the cheap. Things would work better with human interaction on the requests by Google. But bluntly, if you want your video host to do due diligence, hire one that does. Google do a bad job of this because they're a free hosting provider, and as a video uploader you subsequently get what you pay for.

Why do they even need to use ContentID? What’s in it for YouTube?

If someone wants to complain about infringement, they should be required to send a certified letter to YouTube detailing the exact infringement along with providing proof they are in control of the offending work.

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#139

Post by cyphar »

hfdgiutdryg wrote: post #100
jaxtellerSoA wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Copyright should only have a term of life (with a minimum duration of 50 years in case the artist dies at 20-30) and that's all. Boy you are generous, if it was up to me copyrights would have a life of 10 years, no extensions/renewals. Ten years ought to be enough to squeeze a healthy chuck of profits out of your material. If after 10 years you can't/haven't come up with anything new, then you better find a new job…

I don't understand why HN seems to want everyone to be a wage slave. If I create original work, I want to profit off it for my life. Anything else is just punishing people who are creators rather than property owners.

Because:

a) Almost all artists sign deals with publishers to "get their foot in the door" which end up giving all of the rights to the publisher, and so the artist ends up being a "wage slave" because they don't profit off the rights of the work they made.

b) Locking away works for entire generations means that cultural artistic development is stifled. Shakespeare's works were based on previous works and stories, and under the copyright system of today he would have been sued for his plays (and we probably wouldn't have them today). It is insanely short-sighted for corporations to lobby for longer copyright terms to have monopolies, at the expense of eradicating future generations' Shakespeares.

c) The original purpose of copyright (under the Statute of Anne in 1710) was to provide a very limited monopoly by the authors (not publishers) so that they are incentivised to create new works. By your own admission, having lifetime copyright protections does not incentivise the creation of new works (you could argue that it actually is a counter-incentive if you wrote one work that became very popular early in your career). A return to that system would be a significant improvement.

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#140

Post by pitaj »

briandear wrote: post #138
Mindwipe wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is fundamentally that ContentID is done on the cheap. Things would work better with human interaction on the requests by Google. But bluntly, if you want your video host to do due diligence, hire one that does. Google do a bad job of this because they're a free hosting provider, and as a video uploader you subsequently get what you pay for.

Why do they even need to use ContentID? What’s in it for YouTube? If someone wants to complain about infringement, they should be required to send a certified letter to YouTube detailing the exact infringement along with providing proof they are in control of the offending work.

Not getting sued into the ground by publishers for DMCA issues.
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