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How much countries spend in R&D

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Re: How much countries spend in R&D

#21

Post by nickpp »

PeterStuer wrote: post #9

A large proportion of the so-called public R&D spending is actually backdoor subsidies to company's normal production activities. Here in the EU there has been a relentless lobbying push by industry to redefine 'Research' to include the higher 'Technology Readiness Levels' [1]. Traditionally 'Research' was deemed to be up to TRL-3, and 'Development' up to TRL-5. The distinctions are important as there are far stricte…

Those fat governmental hand-outs keep being abused, yet they keep existing. It's almost like someone is gaining a lot from them.

Re: How much countries spend in R&D

#22

Post by tw1010 »

Implicit in this is the idea that if country X invests a significantly larger amount in research than country Y, then X will have significantly more output than Y. I don't buy this. And the reason I don't is because my own country, a small one, gets so much of its input from the US, that a doubling of research spending probably wouldn't do much of a corresponding difference (not produce many more Feynmans, I'm afraid). Culture within the country (e.g. attitude towards disruptors) and how the institutions are set up matters a huge amount.

Re: How much countries spend in R&D

#23

Post by avar »

flipp3r wrote: post #19
PeterStuer wrote: post #9

A large proportion of the so-called public R&D spending is actually backdoor subsidies to company's normal production activities. Here in the EU there has been a relentless lobbying push by industry to redefine 'Research' to include the higher 'Technology Readiness Levels' [1]. Traditionally 'Research' was deemed to be up to TRL-3, and 'Development' up to TRL-5. The distinctions are important as there are far stricte…

This. I can see the Netherlands on 2+% of GDP on the chart as well. The Netherlands indeed grants tax cuts if you do R&D (The law is called "WBSO"), however it totally depends on how you word what you're doing towards the tax authorities. Installing Kubernetes & building Jenkins pipelines? Sorry, that's obviously NOT R&D. Oh wait -- someone hired a company to word it slightly differently. Now you're getting an X mill…

I work for a company mainly based in The Netherlands that gets a ~$400 million USD/yr tax cut through WBSO. Search for "Innoation Box" here: http://ir.bookingholdings.com/node/23191/html

It's definitely a huge benefit, but as far as I know this doesn't subtract from government budgets for basic research in The Netherlands (but maybe I'm wrong).

It's basically a tax benefit the government uses as an incentive to get more knowledge workers into the country and to stimulate that sort of economic activity in general.

Re: How much countries spend in R&D

#24

Post by avar »

early wrote: post #3

% of GDP can be a bit misleading as rich countries easy fall to the left of the graph. I would rather see $ spent per person

$ spent per person is biased towards richer countries. Just because a rocket scientist in the US gets paid 10x that of someone in Russia doesn't mean they're doing more relevant basic research.

Some of it translates into better research, e.g. ability to lure international researchers, access to better equipment because you're in a richer nation, but at least partially the number is inflated without any benefit to the research itself.

Re: How much countries spend in R&D

#25

Post by fsloth »

early wrote: post #3

% of GDP can be a bit misleading as rich countries easy fall to the left of the graph. I would rather see $ spent per person

"I would rather see $ spent per person"

If the research is constrained by resources that can be acquired from global markets, then, yeah.

However, a lot of research tends to consume capital in form of wages to researchers. In this instance a percentage of GDP is a much better indicator of the resourcing level of research.

However, I don't know if there is any way to compare research on a high level by any financial meter in a way that would not be open to critique.

Re: How much countries spend in R&D

#28

Post by throwaway_tvs »

India's is a sad state. It is partly to do with the fact that the nation maintains (rather proudly IMO) the colonial structure of being a mere 'training ground' for Engineers and Scientists before they move to the US/UK/rem. Anglo-Saxon nations. K Vijayaraghavan, the DBT secretary, and a NAS fellow, has written a piece on the matter.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/analysis/india-must-shed-inte...

Re: How much countries spend in R&D

#29

Post by throwaway_tvs »

throwaway_tvs wrote: post #28

India's is a sad state. It is partly to do with the fact that the nation maintains (rather proudly IMO) the colonial structure of being a mere 'training ground' for Engineers and Scientists before they move to the US/UK/rem. Anglo-Saxon nations. K Vijayaraghavan, the DBT secretary, and a NAS fellow, has written a piece on the matter. https://www.hindustantimes.com/analysis/india-must-shed-inte...

That said, I have great respect for some of the Professors who move back to India; working at salaries lower than their RA stipends.

Re: How much countries spend in R&D

#30

Post by throwaway_tvs »

I really admire Israel on the intellectual front. This is a nation that starts using an obscure liturgical language (Hebrew) at the turn of the 19th century, and today has Silicon Wadi which is second only to SV, the highest proportion of PhDs in the population, and a couple Nobels, Fields, Turing and Wolf prizes! I wonder if there are some aspects of Jewish culture than can be incorporated the world over.

India on the other hand ... It's interesting how the homeland of the Semitic and Dharmic religions have fared (both historically and contemporarily).

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