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Ask HN: I want to be a 40h/week intermediate developer.How do I stay employable?

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Re: Ask HN: I want to be a 40h/week intermediate developer.How do I stay employable?

#21

Post by TheLilHipster »

> I can't believe I'm the only one thinking this way, I know there are plenty of so-called "clock punchers/pragmatists"[0] who refuse to play the game. So I'm asking you:

> how do you pull it off?

I'm honest to a fault in every way, with my own personality. When I'm depressed this is self-destructive, but when I'm happy it seems to invigorating to the team mates and friends around me. This seems to click positively with people in general, gives me a lot of rope ;). Confidence in your own truth, I think is the key one-liner here.

> How do you survive?

Living true is freeing, the privilege to be able to do it a blessing. But if your 'truth' is that you're a bitter, shitty person. It will kill you.

Live true but have your core-motives, your convictions, in order. 'Be a positive influence on everyone and anyone I interact with' is a good start.

> What do you tell your managers and your interviewers?

Interviews: play the game. Haven't ever tried the snowflake approach to interviews, haven't seen any evidence to give me the confidence needed to pull it off.

Managers: truth, it's a slow build before you can dump deep truth on people, but bit by bit, let them know what you're about and WHY.

Depending on the temperament of the manager, they either become mates, or they respect/disapprove from a distance.

Hopefully you can pull some value from this stranger <3

Re: Ask HN: I want to be a 40h/week intermediate developer.How do I stay employable?

#22

Post by farseer »

somethingsimple wrote: post #20
wpasc wrote: post #15

This may cut against what some other are saying, but I've found larger tech companies to be very reasonable about the 40 hr work weeks. As you stated, you've had experience all at web startups. Startups tend to encourage the "work-all-day-every-day" mentality whereas (at least in my experience) larger tech companies will let you do your 40 hrs. Doesn't necessarily have to be a strictly tech company. A large corp of a…

Having worked at Microsoft and being now at another big tech company, that hasn't been my experience at all. Those companies seem to be trying to mimic startup culture internally, so they promote the "entrepreneurial employee" idea and try to organize groups internally as small startups. I wish I could do the 9-5 thing at those companies (given the great pay and benefits, adding a predictable and sane work schedule w…

This!

You can follow the 9-5 routine, however at some stage you will bomb the performance reviews. Be overlooked for promotion or terminated altogether. I suppose if you are sharp enough and productive enough, maybe you can pull it off at a B2B type company where pressure is lower.

Re: Ask HN: I want to be a 40h/week intermediate developer.How do I stay employable?

#23

Post by some_account »

somethingsimple wrote: post #20
wpasc wrote: post #15

This may cut against what some other are saying, but I've found larger tech companies to be very reasonable about the 40 hr work weeks. As you stated, you've had experience all at web startups. Startups tend to encourage the "work-all-day-every-day" mentality whereas (at least in my experience) larger tech companies will let you do your 40 hrs. Doesn't necessarily have to be a strictly tech company. A large corp of a…

Having worked at Microsoft and being now at another big tech company, that hasn't been my experience at all. Those companies seem to be trying to mimic startup culture internally, so they promote the "entrepreneurial employee" idea and try to organize groups internally as small startups. I wish I could do the 9-5 thing at those companies (given the great pay and benefits, adding a predictable and sane work schedule w…

Jesus. You would be alone in the office after 17.00 if you were in Sweden, and people would think you are a sucker for wasting your life in an office.

You would be seen as someone who has no life. You would not get respect or higher salary here.

You have to admit, the Swedish way is sane while your culture is crazy.

Re: Ask HN: I want to be a 40h/week intermediate developer.How do I stay employable?

#24

Post by charlesdm »

somethingsimple wrote: post #20
wpasc wrote: post #15

This may cut against what some other are saying, but I've found larger tech companies to be very reasonable about the 40 hr work weeks. As you stated, you've had experience all at web startups. Startups tend to encourage the "work-all-day-every-day" mentality whereas (at least in my experience) larger tech companies will let you do your 40 hrs. Doesn't necessarily have to be a strictly tech company. A large corp of a…

Having worked at Microsoft and being now at another big tech company, that hasn't been my experience at all. Those companies seem to be trying to mimic startup culture internally, so they promote the "entrepreneurial employee" idea and try to organize groups internally as small startups. I wish I could do the 9-5 thing at those companies (given the great pay and benefits, adding a predictable and sane work schedule w…

Just not worth it, my friend

Re: Ask HN: I want to be a 40h/week intermediate developer.How do I stay employable?

#25

Post by some_account »

farseer wrote: post #22
somethingsimple wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having worked at Microsoft and being now at another big tech company, that hasn't been my experience at all. Those companies seem to be trying to mimic startup culture internally, so they promote the "entrepreneurial employee" idea and try to organize groups internally as small startups. I wish I could do the 9-5 thing at those companies (given the great pay and benefits, adding a predictable and sane work schedule w…

This! You can follow the 9-5 routine, however at some stage you will bomb the performance reviews. Be overlooked for promotion or terminated altogether. I suppose if you are sharp enough and productive enough, maybe you can pull it off at a B2B type company where pressure is lower.

I would like to extend a thank you from your bosses that you are spending your entire life in the office so the company can make more money from your hard work.

You may get a promotion, of course expecting you to send even more hours in the office and work even harder. But that's what you want anyway.

Re: Ask HN: I want to be a 40h/week intermediate developer.How do I stay employable?

#26

Post by muzani »

scarface74 wrote: post #17
muzani wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freelancer here. Sorry for the downvote. But 40h/week is not what you get when you're freelancing. Freelance is a mix of sales, dev, consulting. You may get 20h/week some days, 60h/week other days. There's an awful lot of stress that comes with arguing with yourself and pushing yourself to keep moving. I think OP just wants to be comfortable and relaxed.

There is always W2 contracting. Find a few local recruiting companies. You officially work for the recruiting company but you work for short 6-12 month stints for companies. If you’re good in the right market, you should be able to find gigs fast with no sales are marketing.

Oh, that's a bit different than what "freelancer" brings to mind.

Yeah, those jobs bring in good money and are uncommitted, probably right for OP.

Re: Ask HN: I want to be a 40h/week intermediate developer.How do I stay employable?

#27

Post by geospeck »

wpasc wrote: post #15

This may cut against what some other are saying, but I've found larger tech companies to be very reasonable about the 40 hr work weeks. As you stated, you've had experience all at web startups. Startups tend to encourage the "work-all-day-every-day" mentality whereas (at least in my experience) larger tech companies will let you do your 40 hrs. Doesn't necessarily have to be a strictly tech company. A large corp of a…

I've got pretty much the same experience.

I worked for a couple of startups in Berlin and England and I had to work like crazy, then I moved to Norway and started working for a large company(Software Engineer for the oil industry).

Everything is completely different, reasonable working hours, paid over hours no crazy deadlines. On the other hand everything is much slower, e.g. I had to apply for getting a license for Visual Studio and then it has to be approved etc etc.. A lot of bureaucracy.

Overall I've got a better time working here that the startups.

Good luck in your job search.

Re: Ask HN: I want to be a 40h/week intermediate developer.How do I stay employable?

#28

Post by Choque »

some_account wrote: post #23
somethingsimple wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having worked at Microsoft and being now at another big tech company, that hasn't been my experience at all. Those companies seem to be trying to mimic startup culture internally, so they promote the "entrepreneurial employee" idea and try to organize groups internally as small startups. I wish I could do the 9-5 thing at those companies (given the great pay and benefits, adding a predictable and sane work schedule w…

Jesus. You would be alone in the office after 17.00 if you were in Sweden, and people would think you are a sucker for wasting your life in an office. You would be seen as someone who has no life. You would not get respect or higher salary here. You have to admit, the Swedish way is sane while your culture is crazy.

Have to agree there. I rarely stay in the office that long. Usually it's because I started later on that day, so I stay a bit longer. 39h/week and senior dev in a big IT company (4000+ ppl) so yea, I like it here and can't comprehend some of these comments here.

Re: Ask HN: I want to be a 40h/week intermediate developer.How do I stay employable?

#29

Post by muzani »

somethingsimple wrote: post #20
wpasc wrote: post #15

This may cut against what some other are saying, but I've found larger tech companies to be very reasonable about the 40 hr work weeks. As you stated, you've had experience all at web startups. Startups tend to encourage the "work-all-day-every-day" mentality whereas (at least in my experience) larger tech companies will let you do your 40 hrs. Doesn't necessarily have to be a strictly tech company. A large corp of a…

Having worked at Microsoft and being now at another big tech company, that hasn't been my experience at all. Those companies seem to be trying to mimic startup culture internally, so they promote the "entrepreneurial employee" idea and try to organize groups internally as small startups. I wish I could do the 9-5 thing at those companies (given the great pay and benefits, adding a predictable and sane work schedule w…

He did say "telco, bank, large internet company". I don't think MS and Amazon are like that.

I worked at a very large company, one of the top 40 on the stock market. The attitude is quite complacent. Everyone except senior management is forced to work 40 hours. As in they are all given generous vacation time, and the electricity is cut during holidays so nobody can work. Any contact outside office hours is highly discouraged by management.

A lot of those companies are not bad. They attract family people who are super smart and hard-working, but prioritize work-life balance. These giant companies know they can't attract the young and ambitious, so they go for the older and experienced.

Re: Ask HN: I want to be a 40h/week intermediate developer.How do I stay employable?

#30

Post by somethingsimple »

muzani wrote: post #29
somethingsimple wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having worked at Microsoft and being now at another big tech company, that hasn't been my experience at all. Those companies seem to be trying to mimic startup culture internally, so they promote the "entrepreneurial employee" idea and try to organize groups internally as small startups. I wish I could do the 9-5 thing at those companies (given the great pay and benefits, adding a predictable and sane work schedule w…

He did say "telco, bank, large internet company". I don't think MS and Amazon are like that. I worked at a very large company, one of the top 40 on the stock market. The attitude is quite complacent. Everyone except senior management is forced to work 40 hours. As in they are all given generous vacation time, and the electricity is cut during holidays so nobody can work. Any contact outside office hours is highly dis…

Seriously, I need names. I have daily daydreams about the “comfy, 9-5, well-paying corporate job”. Maybe it’s the Seattle area but I’ve never heard of one here. Every job ad no matter the company always has the subtle wording that indicates you’ll be working under a lot of pressure and forced to multitask like crazy and spend long hours in the office.
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