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California Moves to Require 100% Clean Electricity by 2045

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Re: California Moves to Require 100% Clean Electricity by 2045

#361
post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, so the key is California's housing stock is rather old on average, at least from what I can tell.

That's not correct. California's housing stock falls into something closer to the US median. The oldest housing stock in the US is in the North East and Midwest (which tends to be well insulated for Winter purposes). Those regions saw large waves of high population expansion and housing development previously (50+ years ago), which put down an unsurprisingly large base of housing stock. California's development by co…

Ok, perhaps it's not exceptionally old. But the point is, while the codes are pretty good now, much of the stock was built decades ago, long before the energy efficiency codes tightened up. When many of the houses in Silicon Valley were put up, attic insulation wasn't even used, period.

Re: California Moves to Require 100% Clean Electricity by 2045

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Maddening" implies discomfort. If people didn't virtue signal, it would eliminate that discomfort. You don't like the discomfort, otherwise you would have written that you find virtue-signaling being maddening an enjoyable experience. If it was neutral, you wouldn't use an emotional word to describe it. Since you don't find the feeling enjoyable or neutral, and because of the meaning of "maddening," that means you d…

Virtue signalling in this context is giving the impression of doing something. Saying "We should treat the environment better" while being honest about your own [lack of] contribution is perfectly fine. By the same token, I can complain about a group, and as long as I don't claim that my complaints magically fixed the problem, that's fine.

By the same token, I can complain about a group, and as long as I don't claim that my complaints magically fixed the problem, that's fine.

That's not at all how people use it colloquially.

Nobody is claiming that bumper stickers, Priuses, statements of "thoughts and prayers," or changing one's Facebook profile picture magically fix any problem. And yet those are the exact things that get labeled virtue-signalling.

In this thread alone, jaredhansen mentions "ideally via cheap signals like signs and bumper stickers" - though admittedly doesn't say virtue signals. x220's definition is also at odds with yours. https://hn.algolia.com/?query=virtue-signalling is rife with examples.

The incessant cries of virtue-signalling on the web absolutely do not require someone claiming that they've "magically fixed" any problem, and are almost entirely gate-keeping, goalpost-moving, ad hominem attacks, simple partisanship, and general lazy argumentation.

Re: California Moves to Require 100% Clean Electricity by 2045

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn't a fee&dividend widely accepted as the solution here? I don't mind if you buy and drive a dodge ram or a Sherman tank, as long as you reimburse me for the harm it does to me and my child.

How would you like me to reimburse you? I'm being serious -- I would be willing to do something to reduce or eliminate my environmental impact. Would carbon offsetting be enough, or is there something else I can do?

Carbon offsets are tricky. In the current world, that's probably the best you can do, but it's hard to be sure that you're genuinely displacing as much carbon as you want to be. And it certainly won't work for everyone in the world to burn lots of fuel and then make up for it buying offsets.

Anyway, I'm talking about legislative action, rather than individual action -

[Note: I'm assuming (perhaps erroneously) that you're in the USA. If you're not, please pretend for a few minutes that you are.]

What I (and many others) want is, in effect, for it to be mandatory that everyone reimburse everyone else for the harmful effects of their carbon emissions, and for the IRS to mediate all of this.

If the policy is implemented intelligently then you as an individual, don't need to do anything, but as a consumer of goods and services will pay increased prices (the price difference being the amount that you owe society for the harm that your carbon footprint is imposing).

Adapted from [1]:

    - A fee is levied on fuels at their point of origin into the economy, 
      such as the well, mine, or port of entry. The fee is based upon the 
      carbon content of a given fuel, with a commonly-proposed starting 
      point being $10–$16 per ton of carbon that would be emitted once the 
      fuel is burned.

    - A border tax adjustment is levied on imports from nations that lack 
      their own equivalent fee on carbon, increasing the cost of the goods 
      by an amount corresponding to the (estimated)carbon emitted in their 
      manufacture. This ensures that American manufacturers remain competitive 
      in spite of their increased energy costs, and incentivizes nations who 
      want to sell goods into the USA to put a price on carbon as well.

    - The fees collected each month are returned to households as an energy 
      dividend (eg every resident over 18 years of age gets an equal share). 
      Returning 100% of net fees results in a revenue-neutral carbon fee-and-
      dividend system.
Advocates of this policy tend focus entirely on the teleology of it - the incentive it provides for people and businesses to emit less. The arguments I hear in support of the carbon-neutral aspect of the policy mainly point out that this allows us to tax carbon without upsetting fiscal conservatives who don't want to increase the size of the federal government.

But I think they're all ignoring a more important point. It doesn't need to be about changing people's behavior. To me, it's more about justice. I'm not about to tell wealthy businessmen that they can't fly across the country on a private jet every single week. But if their travels are 10% of the reason that my daughter has to live in a world where food is 10x more expensive because the oceans are dead and agricultural yields have been decimated, shouldn't they have to compensate her? It seems to me that, as long as the size of the fee is set properly, a policy like the one described above would be the fairest and most direct way to achieve that.

BTW, an organization un the USA whose sole mission is to lobby for a policy like this is the "Citizen's Climate Lobby" (CCL)[2]. To me, it seems so sensible that I can't understand why it isn't more widely discussed. It could turn out, I suppose, that implementation of the policy is difficult or impractical, but the discussion never even gets that far. Even the CCL's legislative proposal is, in my opinion, woefully lacking in implementation details.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fee_and_dividend [2] https://citizensclimatelobby.org/

Re: California Moves to Require 100% Clean Electricity by 2045

#364
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The effects are felt elsewhere, too. Most manufacturers aren't going to design two versions of a model for two regions, the energy efficient one, and the less energy efficient one. They'll just work to make one that fits the more stringent one. California has been one of the biggest drivers of EE nationwide because of that. It's interesting to see it in practice too; if you move to California and bring a car, part of…

This is possible because CA is the biggest economy in the US (6th largest worldwide) so the manufacturers can't ignore it.

5th, as of 2018.

https://www.businessinsider.com/california-economy-ranks-5th...

Re: California Moves to Require 100% Clean Electricity by 2045

#365
post #88

I think another great move would be to start dealing with excessive energy consumption. Compared to what I'm used to in Europe, California is wasting crazy amounts of energy. Poorly insulated homes, old and inefficient AC/heating units, vertical-drum washing machines (!!!), poorly designed gas stoves, oversized cars, monstrous gas-guzzling trucks, energy waste is all over the place. People behave just as if energy we…

Europe was built (re-built after WW II) to be energy-efficient. Cars have diesel motors that make half the power of the same model in the USA. Air conditioning in the home is almost unheard-of. Nobody I know there has a clothes dryer that roasts your clothes with gas or electricity - the unit I had when I lived there was a washer/dryer combo with a really powerful spin cycle and then a mild heater coupled with a condensing unit (basically a dehumidifier) - clothes come out damp, so you have to hang them up to get to final dry-ness. All light bulbs are fluorescent, if not LED, and all lights in public buildings are on motion sensors or timer switches.

California skates by because the big population centers need almost zero heating or cooling, relatively speaking. Other than that, our power use would make a German Green Party member see red.

Re: California Moves to Require 100% Clean Electricity by 2045

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What fraction of apartment buildings in California have double-pane windows? What fraction of commercial buildings in SF/East Bay have operable windows to take advantage of natural ventilation?

> What fraction of apartment buildings in California have double-pane windows? One thing that amazed me when moving to California a couple of years ago was reading ads for apartments where the text would gush about the apartment having double glazing!!!1!! Meanwhile, in Sweden, triple glazing has been the required minimum since the 90s, and older buildings were forced to install a third pane or retrofit new windows o…

Sweden is a lot colder than California, it's not surprising that better insulation is required.

Re: California Moves to Require 100% Clean Electricity by 2045

#367
post #88

I think another great move would be to start dealing with excessive energy consumption. Compared to what I'm used to in Europe, California is wasting crazy amounts of energy. Poorly insulated homes, old and inefficient AC/heating units, vertical-drum washing machines (!!!), poorly designed gas stoves, oversized cars, monstrous gas-guzzling trucks, energy waste is all over the place. People behave just as if energy we…

Homes are very poorly insulated here because it's not necessary. The climate is so nice, the heater only runs a month or two out of the year, and not even the whole day. It maybe brings up the inside temperature 5 degrees C. We could get by without air conditioning entirely, but I have it and it gets used perhaps for a total of two weeks in the summer.

Compare that to northern Europe where the outside temperature is below 0C for a lot of the winter, the payoff for properly insulating a house, installing new windows, etc, just isn't there. If you really wanted to save energy, move somewhere where you don't require so much energy to not freeze to death.

Re: California Moves to Require 100% Clean Electricity by 2045

#368
post #94
post #88

I think another great move would be to start dealing with excessive energy consumption. Compared to what I'm used to in Europe, California is wasting crazy amounts of energy. Poorly insulated homes, old and inefficient AC/heating units, vertical-drum washing machines (!!!), poorly designed gas stoves, oversized cars, monstrous gas-guzzling trucks, energy waste is all over the place. People behave just as if energy we…

Compared to Europe the US is doing better on carbon reduction seeing as the US went down and Europe went up. I'm not disagreeing that everyone should try to improve and the items you mentioned can be looked at, but comparing to Europe the US looks pretty good.

The US is producing crazy amounts of natural gas, that probably leads to some reduction in the use of coal. I don't see much policy driving towards sustainable technology.

Re: California Moves to Require 100% Clean Electricity by 2045

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What fraction of apartment buildings in California have double-pane windows? One thing that amazed me when moving to California a couple of years ago was reading ads for apartments where the text would gush about the apartment having double glazing!!!1!! Meanwhile, in Sweden, triple glazing has been the required minimum since the 90s, and older buildings were forced to install a third pane or retrofit new windows o…

Sweden is a lot colder than California, it's not surprising that better insulation is required.

Is triple glazing common, standard, or required in any part of the US?

Is double glazing?

Re: California Moves to Require 100% Clean Electricity by 2045

#370
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU emits 50% as much per capita. A 0.5% reduction for the US isn't better than the EU in absolute terms.

Total output is what really matters, not just the per capita. The earth has a carrying limit for total emissions. The EU has nearly 200 million more people than the US, roughly 60% more, squeezed into an area less than half the size of the US. Whose fault is that population density? The total EU emissions are ~80% as high as the US in ~45% of the land area (a drastically worse rate of emissions per km2), due to that…

Only means to decrease total CO2 output is increasing efficiency per capita CO2 output captures this very well. Population will not shrink anytime soon and moving people around at scale is not feasible.
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