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Java is still available at zero-cost

blog.joda.org

51–60 of 164 posts

Re: Java is still available at zero-cost

#51

The TL;DR is that Red Hat and IBM are going to take over from Oracle as primary maintainers of java 8 (in the form of openjdk) after January 2019. That is likely to last through at least 2022. Going forward Oracle will be primary maintainers of openjdk for each new version of java for six months. Every third version (starting with 11) the hope and expectation is that RH, IBM, et al will take over after those six mont…

That's such a weird arrangement from a people perspective, but if that works out, it bodes pretty well for the longevity of Java

Re: Java is still available at zero-cost

#53
post #43

Honest question: How often do people upgrade their production language? Me: once in a decade, maybe. I'm still perfectly happy (and productive) with C# 3.5, Java 7 and Python 2. I'm grudgingly moving forward because the old toolchains are being deprecated now, but my codes aren't significantly improved because of a few fancy idioms available in a new language, and it barely affects the design decisions. Upgrading you…

Not that I rush into using the newest C# language features... But C# > 3.5 has some great changes that are very easy to learn and worthwhile. The new string interpolation feature is so good I don't even allow old-style string.Formats in code reviews.

Re: Java is still available at zero-cost

#54
post #43

Honest question: How often do people upgrade their production language? Me: once in a decade, maybe. I'm still perfectly happy (and productive) with C# 3.5, Java 7 and Python 2. I'm grudgingly moving forward because the old toolchains are being deprecated now, but my codes aren't significantly improved because of a few fancy idioms available in a new language, and it barely affects the design decisions. Upgrading you…

I was burned, badly, when try to port a huge ERP from .NET 1.1 to 2.? (if I remember the numbers correctly). Other projects get the slowdon, but that was truly a nightmare. That my brain trauma make forget much of it.

After that, I move very very fast. I prefer to hit "small" pains in short-term that try to do a huge jump later.

This mean that as long as I'm coding in a project (I'm contractor and do freelancing) I upgrade to whatever stable version my tools trow at me ASAP. And even minor versions or sometimes betas.

Not only language(s) - I keep at the same time different codebases in different languages, one main active plus maintenance-, I try to move everything: OS, RDBMS, IDEs, Editors, Frameworks, Libraries, etc. I probably hit "upgrade" every few days per week!

ONLY after the project stabilize and I do a few changes per-year, I stop doing that. And if the project somehow accelerate again I try to port ASAP.

How crazy is this? If the ecosystem I'm doing is nuts (ie: js) very clearly this reckless behavior show that.. QUICKLY.

...and then I need to pay more attention to my depencencies (keep them small) and choses only stable stuff.

I hit breaking changes not as often. And when see something painfull then I pin versions and keep them for a while.

This mean that I move ASAP and stay current as much as possible. I slow down when enter production, and slow down/stop again when the customer(s) stop requesting work.

This demand to use logging and have some testing, fast deployment/rollback, automate backups and use source control, very soon in the project, but this is good things anyway. (and maybe have a few VM or dockerized stuff but not as many despite more than 20 years doing crazy).

So far, this have work great for me, and never get stuck for months in rewrites like in the past. I get use to rewrite fast, that compensate to the fact that I'm a slow developer.

Re: Java is still available at zero-cost

#55

Just for comparison.... Microsoft supports .Net Core LTS releases for three years.... https://www.microsoft.com/net/support/policy

Did they learn the definition of "long term support" from phone manufacturers?

.net 1.1 (I looked this up when I had to install it earlier this week...) was supported for 10 years until 2013 and as part of Windows Server 2003 (32 bit) it was supported until 2015 so it looks like they're going backwards too.

Re: Java is still available at zero-cost

#56
post #52

Nice idea on clarifying what the word "free" means in this context (gratis, not libre) by prefixing it with a dollar sign. This is the first time I saw this, is this usage widespread?

I've never seen it either and found it to be immediately clear. I wonder what similar prefixes could be used for "libre not gratis" and "libre and gratis". I know that "Free" could stand in for the second, but it's more ambiguous than "$free" was in this article.

Re: Java is still available at zero-cost

#58

The TL;DR is that Red Hat and IBM are going to take over from Oracle as primary maintainers of java 8 (in the form of openjdk) after January 2019. That is likely to last through at least 2022. Going forward Oracle will be primary maintainers of openjdk for each new version of java for six months. Every third version (starting with 11) the hope and expectation is that RH, IBM, et al will take over after those six mont…

That sounds like a disaster, the developers at oracle no longer have any personal incentive when it comes to producing quality, maintainable software because it is no longer a problem they have to deal with. Because they're not feeling any personal pain from bad decisions they will no longer learn from them.

This is close to the consultancy business model that's been at the root of so much bad software.

Re: Java is still available at zero-cost

#59
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Find that in writing. Everything I read says jdk 8 is the last free Oracle jdk.

Then read the article you're commenting on?

I did. Here is the money quote:

Firstly, it is not clear that there will be an Oracle JDK that is $free to download. Despite my best attempts, I could not get 100% clarity on this point, but see also this tweet.

Re: Java is still available at zero-cost

#60
post #35

I have a friend working at a company that is having “very important” discussions about this. They need to keep up with security patches (for obvious reasons) but the six month limit has them scared. The consensus seems to be that they don’t believe they can keep up with an upgrade schedule that fast and are thus forced to pay for support from someone or hope that the community backports security fixes far enough for…

I am not sure I completely understand the implications of this. But, if OpenJDK is the reference implementation, and as long as someone is going to maintain Java 11, there really isn't much to worry. I worked for a company that completely relies on Java. They also relied on Apache, so they had on their roles two developers that wrote code for Apache and Tomcat. Making wild guesses here but - if OpenJDK project gets 3…

The question is, and we won’t know the answer until this is been going on for a while, how many releas(es) back will continue to get security updates from the community.

Will they decide on arbitrary long-term releases? Maybe 11 and 15 and then 19 get three years of support?

Or will the community extend the length of security patch releases by some sort of fixed margin, say 6 to 12 months, and leave it at that.

Right now no one truly knows how it’s going to work out.

I find it interesting that a company that pushes out updates much more frequently than every six months is uncomfortable updating the software THEY use every six months.

It’s not like there should be big breaking changes problems, you can rely on the TCK to know that your code will continue to work.

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