Ask HN: I want to be a 40h/week intermediate developer.How do I stay employable?

#1

Post by firestri » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 1:07 AM UTC

Using a throw-away because it is career suicide to express these thoughts so candidly. This post might trigger people with different views on work than mine.

I'm an average developer. I can write decent, legible code, with tests, and solve a business problem according to specs. I didn't study CS and learned it all out of sheer curiosity and passion. I have about five years of experience, all at web startups.

So far, so good.

But here is the thing: I only like to stay for a year or less at a given place and then quit (or get laid off, even better because I get employment insurance). I go on a 1-6 months break to recharge before I have to look for work again.

I'm perfectly fine staying an average developer. I want to do my 40 hours a week, sit out of office politics, go home, and do things I enjoy more with the rest of my time. I have no interest in becoming a lead or a senior dev: the extra stress isn't worth it, the Kool-Aid doesn't taste good, and I'm paid well enough as it is.

It feels like I'm living a lie though because hiring managers would much rather get docile, "hungry", "passionate" people who aren't going to leave after 9-12 months. So I have to pretend while interviewing so I can get my next job and pay my bills until it's time for me to take a break again.

I don't enjoy doing this because it feels dirty.

So this time around, I'm looking at alternatives: how can I work on my own terms and take long breaks in-between while staying employable? Should I look for agencies and only go for 3-6-9 months contracts? Should I give up tech entirely to avoid the broken interview process and avoid burning out at work?

I can't believe I'm the only one thinking this way, I know there are plenty of so-called "clock punchers/pragmatists"[0] who refuse to play the game. So I'm asking you: how do you pull it off? How do you survive? What do you tell your managers and your interviewers?

[0]: https://daedtech.com/defining-the-corporate-hierarchy/

Re: Ask HN: I want to be a 40h/week intermediate developer.How do I stay employable?

#2

Post by savethefuture » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 1:19 AM UTC

Talk to your manager, if you're planning on leaving regardless what difference would it make if you asked for an extended period of time off?

Besides that maybe think about creating a small business, be a freelancer, or develop a product or service that people want to use.

I feel like we're in similar boats longing for something else, lately I've been questioning my position but I've been here for quite some time and find it very difficult to leave the luxury I have.

Re: Ask HN: I want to be a 40h/week intermediate developer.How do I stay employable?

#3

Post by megamindbrian2 » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 1:25 AM UTC

This describes my feelings exactly. Dang, nevermind the throw away account, let's talk about throwaway career and brainstorm on solutions for ridding ourselves of pointless jobs.

Re: Ask HN: I want to be a 40h/week intermediate developer.How do I stay employable?

#4

Post by quickthrower2 » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 1:26 AM UTC

Firestri, it might be helpful to say where you are located in the world.

Anyway the options are see are:

Contracting - as you mentioned. If they are unsure enough that they make it a contract rather than permanent role, I see no ethical issue in quitting after the contract has finished. The question is then how do you explain this on your next contract. I'm not sure of the answer to that, but lets say you are flexible and say you can work anywhere in the world for work, you'll probably find some companies somewhere who desperately need resources and can't be fussy that someone has a sparkling resume full of 4 year stints in progressively more senior roles at brand name companies, and they'd be happy to take someone with more gaps in their resume than dutch cheese, because they need to get a problem solved quick.

Another option is to find a company that lets you have lots of career breaks. Probably want to work for a big company with the structure, processes and policies to support this. I reckon companies like Microsoft.

Another thing to consider if you can live frugally is a funded PhD and maybe you work on the PhD like crazy 8 months then take 4 months off, come back to it etc. Not sure how realistic that is but it's an idea.

If you can live frugally and be nomadic (or at least willing to avoid expensive cities) maybe freelancing remote would work for you. Earning $30/h but living in Vietnam for example, or even a very cheap part of the US sharing a room might be an options there. Once you get a reputation you might be able to get your earnings up to a normal job or even higher.

Re: Ask HN: I want to be a 40h/week intermediate developer.How do I stay employable?

#5

Post by firestri » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 1:56 AM UTC

quickthrower2 wrote: post #4

Firestri, it might be helpful to say where you are located in the world. Anyway the options are see are: Contracting - as you mentioned. If they are unsure enough that they make it a contract rather than permanent role, I see no ethical issue in quitting after the contract has finished. The question is then how do you explain this on your next contract. I'm not sure of the answer to that, but lets say you are flexibl…

I'm in Canada. I don't think I could land a job at Microsoft or Google or the other big ones, I wouldn't pass the technical interview.

As for a PhD, don't you need a masters degree and a topic you feel strongly enough about to spend years dwelling on it? It's not that I don't know what to do with myself, but rather that I don't know how to live my life without playing the rat race.

Re: Ask HN: I want to be a 40h/week intermediate developer.How do I stay employable?

#6

Post by codegeek » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 1:57 AM UTC

You sound like a good candidate to be a freelancer. Decide your own hours, mostly your own terms and take breaks whenever you want. Only problem is that you have to learn to sell a lot more than what you do as a regular job candidate.

"I only like to stay for a year or less at a given place and then quit "

This is going to start looking bad after a while for full-time jobs. It is perfectly ok if you are freelancing though.

"I have no interest in becoming a lead or a senior dev"

Yep, call yourself whatever you want and get shit done for clients. No titles.

Re: Ask HN: I want to be a 40h/week intermediate developer.How do I stay employable?

#7

Post by auslegung » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 2:28 AM UTC

Contracting sounds reasonable. Or when interviewing, find out if they’d be willing to pay less money but give more time off. Freelancing seems good too but you might not be interested in all the leg work to get clients. I like what someone suggested, to just ask your current employer about extended leave since you’ll leave them soon anyway. Good luck! It doesn’t seem unreasonable, but it does seem like we’re not allowed to stop at Decent Programmer, Not Much Aspiration.

Re: Ask HN: I want to be a 40h/week intermediate developer.How do I stay employable?

#8

Post by swatcoder » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 2:42 AM UTC

I have so many things to say!

1. It's okay to just want to get work done and get paid and go home. That's what most people do in most jobs, even in tech. Flashy VC-chasing startups are a little bubble, over-represented on HN and in the media. Most of tech workers are working outside of that bubble and are doing exactly what you want (in terms of hours per week and compartmentalization).

2. The semi-annual schedule you want is also okay, but much less common. Because it's less common, fewer project managers and departments are ready to adapt to it. And as an intermediate developer (rather than a senior) you have less leverage to ask them to adapt. This is why you're not telling them ahead of time, and why you're left feeling "dirty".

3. It's good you want to normalize things and be more open about your preferences and needs. It's a sign of maturity in your career (and maybe yourself).

And I think you have a few things to think about going forward:

- Why do you want to leave places after 9-12 moths. Is it just because you like to take a few months to yourself. Would you be willing to go back to the same place after the break? To a hiring company, that's a hugely more palatable than if you just disappear, and is exactly the kind of thing you can directly negotiate after you've qualified for a job and before accepting an offer.

- Do you just want different projects (after your break)? Then you can absolutely apply to an agency or contracting firm. Many have struggle to maintain 100% utilization for their workers and would welcome people who are okay on their own between assignments. If you can slip off their roster/payroll during slow times and hop back on when work picks up again, they'll be happy!

- Do you want to just avoid commitment altogether? Then consider independent contracting. You take on a bunch of other responsibilities (hustling for work, nagging for payment, etc) but you can take unpaid breaks whenever you want and you can structure engagements so that you're not working with clients for longer than you'd want. You're in control of everything.

TLDR: there are probably hundreds of thousands of people like you. Maybe millions. Figure out the next detail in what you need and you'll see the path ahead.

Re: Ask HN: I want to be a 40h/week intermediate developer.How do I stay employable?

#9

Post by swatcoder » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 2:58 AM UTC

swatcoder wrote: post #8

I have so many things to say! 1. It's okay to just want to get work done and get paid and go home. That's what most people do in most jobs, even in tech. Flashy VC-chasing startups are a little bubble, over-represented on HN and in the media. Most of tech workers are working outside of that bubble and are doing exactly what you want (in terms of hours per week and compartmentalization). 2. The semi-annual schedule yo…

Oh, and to offer something more personal:

I spent the middle decade of my career with a partner at home who needed regular care-taking. I needed to put that ahead of any traditional career treadmill and so I worked remotely for a mid-sized contracting firm and was clear about my availability. They gave me the work I needed, and I preserved the time and space I needed.

Because I worked for the same firm all that time, and did good work, I established a strong and trusting relationship that afforded me increasingly more flexibility and control.

Plus, by volunteering to support the other sides of the business like Sales, Recruiting, etc I learned more than enough about contracting to be quite confident and successful when I eventually decided to go out on my own -- which gave me even more control.

I can't tell you if it's a path that would make sense for you, but it was a very rewarding one for me.

Re: Ask HN: I want to be a 40h/week intermediate developer.How do I stay employable?

#10

Post by rpvnwnkl » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 3:00 AM UTC

Why 40 hrs? Try 24-32 and you might find the pace suits you better. This might work for a small org that needs a tech person but can’t support a FT tech person.

Ideally you’ll be matching your needs/wants with an employer’s needs/wants. So be more aggressive in searching for the right situation, and you might not end up needing to hurn so many bridges.

Also, evaluate why you desire to leave. Is it boredom? Difficulties working with others? You might find you can address your malaise from this end at the same time.