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Convincing engineers to join your team

triplebyte.com

111–120 of 165 posts

Re: Convincing engineers to join your team

#111
post #62

> A complaint we hear from Triplebyte candidates is being asked how likely they would be to accept an offer before knowing the actual offer details. The reality is that compensation details are a large factor in where people decide to work and you can't expect someone to know if they want to work for you without giving them that data. The numerical salary shouldn't be the deciding factor. I want to know if you're int…

If you tell them you really want to work there, they can use that asymmetry of information to their advantage in order to give a lower offer. What you’re doing is asking someone to take a highly disadvantaged negotiating position.

Re: Convincing engineers to join your team

#112
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The numerical salary shouldn't be the deciding factor. I don't think people that didn't grow up poor can appreciate how stupid that statement sounds to us.

You're assuming I didn't grow up poor. You'd be correct in that assumption, but that doesn't mean I can't empathize. I didn't grow up poor, but when it came time to get my first job, I didn't have any money nor any help from my parents, or any fall back options. I had to get a job to afford food and shelter. I still cared about the work that I'd be doing.

Even from this post its clear you just don’t understand.

Re: Convincing engineers to join your team

#113
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they don't that's why they want reassurance full day interviews. First step stop applying and let them come to you directly or get recommended. Do you consider yourself the Brad Pit of enginners or joe blow? Do you think Brad Pitt goes into the cattle call auditions and waits all day for his 5 minute read?

I'm not a Brad Pitt, are you? Is there even such a thing in engineering?

There are tons of engineering rockstars (brad pitt types). Pick your favourite framework there are usually a handful of stars around it.

Am I Brad Pitt? I'm not in that league. But you don't have to be to avoid the unpaid nonsense of hanging around all day. If that's the hiring process it shows that the company is unsure of themselves and are afraid to make a mistake. Companies like google are so big they need this kind of process to filter people out. When a 30 person company does this it raises red flags.

Re: Convincing engineers to join your team

#114
post #96
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you provide a few example questions you would do? Just curious what medium difficulty questions look like to you.

"What do you think are the top strengths and top weaknesses of ?" Doesn't matter what the specific answers are, much less if you even like language X or not. Instead it says: does the person really have an understanding of the language; do they have enough experience to say "well I really do like X, but I do often wish it had feature y of language Z". or "yes, I have a lot of JS experience since that's the job and I…

This is one of the best questions to ask imo.

It's very free-form and honest, and gives you the potential to dive into things technically.

Do you like C or C++ better? Oh you don't like pointers? How do you avoid them in C++? etc.

Re: Convincing engineers to join your team

#115
post #81

My phone screen technique is more old school but I think works well. I pick their top language or domain (web or mobile or whatever) and ask 10 trivia questions. Medium difficulty questions I'd expect a programmer with any experience to answer. I look for maybe 70% correct and I look for quick answers. You know it or you don't. And I set that expectation up front so they can give me a few "I don't know"s with no pena…

> I look for maybe 70% correct and I look for quick answers. You know it or you don't. And I set that expectation up front so they can give me a few "I don't know"s with no penalty. I like that system. I recently took the TripleByte technical quiz and I liked that "I Don't Know" was an acceptable answer for most of the questions. When paired with the timer (or in your case, looking for a fast answer) it seems like a…

As an aside, does anyone happen to know what the "levels" of performance on the TripleByte technical quiz are? When I took it (and I realize this will sound like a humblebrag), I was told I did "exceptionally well" and could be paired with "approximately 27 top tech companies", but I didn't feel I did all that well on it at all.

I tried one of their quizzes once, out of curiosity after it was mentioned somewhere I think. The questions I saw were routine enough for an experienced developer and I'd have expected anyone senior to get a near-perfect score. I'm pretty sure I still got shown something very close to what you got shown at the end, though.

That said, the other recruiting site that comes to mind for plugging how selective it is is TopTal, which claims to only take the top 3%. Given that 100% of people I've encountered who claimed to be in that group would also have failed a junior developer interview with me in minutes if not seconds, I'm guessing the population of people who seriously apply to these sites skews very low on skill and experience. Maybe anyone mid-level or above who actually knows what they're doing really is exceptionally good within that population, and even though you didn't feel it went that well you were still a good prospect among their applicants.

Re: Convincing engineers to join your team

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never had a full day interview, if it's more than 4 hours for a serious onsite I won't waste my time. They clearly don't appreciate other people's time and are quite frankly wasting theirs. The decision was probably already made before the second cup of coffee anyways. I absolutely agree with refusing to interview and meet the teammates. All you have to do is rub someone the wrong way for whatever reason, hell…

I had a company want to do a full day interview, but I had to cut it short and beg off at 1 PM, because they had already blasted past my hotel check-out time, and were in danger of encroaching on the departure time of my return flight--that they booked for me. It was the worst interview experience I have ever had. They declined to arrange for a rental vehicle, so someone from the company had to drive me to and from t…

I will say that as someone generally on the hiring side of the equation, I do find that hotel chains and rental agencies drive me CRAZY.

No matter how hard I try and how many times I do it, there is ALWAYS some idiotic hiccup that prevents me from paying for the candidate's room, car, etc. up front. I can give those companies all the credit cards and forms in the world, and somebody in the pipeline will screw it up and demand a couple hundred dollar charge from my candidate. It's so bad that I normally show up to meet the candidate in person simply so that I can use my personal card to ride over the hiccup.

If somebody at HN is looking for a startup idea, here's a "grubby" thing that someone could turn into a service that could browbeat the idiotic hotel companies into submission on.

Re: Convincing engineers to join your team

#117
post #81

My phone screen technique is more old school but I think works well. I pick their top language or domain (web or mobile or whatever) and ask 10 trivia questions. Medium difficulty questions I'd expect a programmer with any experience to answer. I look for maybe 70% correct and I look for quick answers. You know it or you don't. And I set that expectation up front so they can give me a few "I don't know"s with no pena…

But how would you convince engineers to join your team? Not the other way round...

Re: Convincing engineers to join your team

#118
Broken record, but here's our hiring process:

1. An initial call, handled by a principal ("founder"), with the objective of explaining the role and the company and arming the candidate with as much detail about the hiring process as is practicable.

2. A followup in email shortly thereafter confirming interest and locking down schedule.

3. 1-3 work-sample challenges (our current set, for the role we're hiring now, is a short combined AWS/Django security assessment, an automated best-effort-secure deployment of that Django app in a fresh AWS environment we provide, and a short API scanner programming challenge):

3a. Introduction: provide the candidate with advance knowledge of what will be on the challenge and what they'll want to know going in, along with time expectations.

3b. Preparation: offer the candidate books, links to presentations, and a practice version of the challenge to get confident and comfortable with the challenge.

3c. The challenge proper.

3d. Scoring: each challenge has a pre-built scoring rubric, on a 1-5 scale, designed so that anyone on the team can quickly score a submission.

4. Meet in person: after informing the candidate they did well on technical qualification, we do a single round of in-person "interviews"; no whiteboard, no coding, just meet and greet and discuss logistics.

5. Offer.

Missing from this process:

1. Recruiters.

2. Resumes.

3. Telephone interviews.

4. Technical interviews from members of the engineering team.

5. Any significant interruption to the engineering team's work.

6. Interview exercises with a member of our team watching you code.

7. Free pizza and coffee (though I guess if you asked, we'd send you one).

8. 5 of the 6 hours onsite this recommended process includes.

I'm happy to keep repeating this just as a sort of reminder that we're hiring, but this is a streamlined and improved (we didn't have practice challenges at Matasano!) version of the way we've been hiring for coming up on 10 years, and it works spectacularly well for us. People keep telling me why what we're doing can't work, and I keep wondering what I'm doing wrong to make it work.

You should consider cutting way back on interviews --- especially telephone interviews, which I've found to be completely worthless as generators of real insight into candidates --- and replacing them with work-sample challenges. But be serious about it if you do: candidates hate "take-home projects", and when I ask them about it, it always turns out that those projects precede or follow a standard interview loop. Fuck the interview loop. Interviews are a random function. Figure out what skills you need candidates to have on day 1, and then just build something that checks if candidates have those skills.

Re: Convincing engineers to join your team

#119
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're asking why it's the standard and how we could change it.

It's the standard because it's a big world and some candidates travel long for an interview. So you squash the process into a day. That makes sense.

Could you elaborate on why it makes sense to have these candidates travel long distances for a full day interview, rather than have them travel nowhere for a shorter interview via video chat?

Re: Convincing engineers to join your team

#120

What's with the standard of doing a full day interview? Who does this work for other than fresh graduates? I don't want to spend a whole day (which I have to request off from my current employer) answering probably-silly technical puzzles as the first round interview (the 25 minute phone call doesn't really count since it sounds like just a pitch). Does a full day of whiteboarding really get you better candidates tha…

It selects for people who are comfortable attending an all day meeting.

As a potential interviewee, the specter of ever working at a place that tolerates all day meetings again sends chills up my spine.

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