Convincing engineers to join your team • Hacker News Board

Re: Convincing engineers to join your team

#41

Post by avip » Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 6:42 PM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #26

dfabulich wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A full day interview is standard. You grant that it's standard, right in the first sentence of your post. But you'll tell anyone who offers you a standard interview to take a hike? This is symptomatic of a broader problem with HN comment threads on "how to interview" articles: for any given approach to interviewing, the top comment will be a middle-brow dismissal saying, "I would never interview at a place that inter…

They're asking why it's the standard and how we could change it.

It's the standard because it's a big world and some candidates travel long for an interview. So you squash the process into a day. That makes sense.

Re: Convincing engineers to join your team

#42

Post by opportune » Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 6:42 PM UTC

wolco wrote: post #34

slivym wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our full day interviews aren't so that you can do lot's of different tests, it's so that you can meet and discuss things with the entire team you're working with. It might seem silly that you're being asked a toy problem 4 different times, but each of those times you're talking to a different person and getting to know them.

Why would a serious candidate waste the entire day? The candidates that stay may be the disparate ones.

yeah only desperate engineers work at the top tier fintech companies with all day interviews

Re: Convincing engineers to join your team

#43

Post by avip » Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 6:44 PM UTC

wayne_skylar wrote: post #30

ashelmire wrote: post #19

What's with the standard of doing a full day interview? Who does this work for other than fresh graduates? I don't want to spend a whole day (which I have to request off from my current employer) answering probably-silly technical puzzles as the first round interview (the 25 minute phone call doesn't really count since it sounds like just a pitch). Does a full day of whiteboarding really get you better candidates tha…

Yep. I got recruited for a job I was qualified for yet didn't really want with a very high paying salary. I decided to go through the process to see if there might be something that made me change my mind. They requested a full-day interview. I asked if it could be broken up into two days and they declined. So I informed them that I didn't think I would be a good fit. There's so much bullshit that Facebook / Google e…

The word "recruited" implies you got an offer and signed it - not that someone poked you on linkedin.

Re: Convincing engineers to join your team

#44

Post by wolco » Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 6:46 PM UTC

jonny_eh wrote: post #35

wolco wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would a serious candidate waste the entire day? The candidates that stay may be the disparate ones.

I consider myself a strong engineer and I've only ever done full day interviews, at least for companies bigger than 30 people. What am I doing wrong?

But they don't that's why they want reassurance full day interviews.

First step stop applying and let them come to you directly or get recommended.

Do you consider yourself the Brad Pit of enginners or joe blow? Do you think Brad Pitt goes into the cattle call auditions and waits all day for his 5 minute read?

Re: Convincing engineers to join your team

#45

Post by wycy » Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 6:47 PM UTC

jiveturkey wrote: post #39

ashelmire wrote: post #19

What's with the standard of doing a full day interview? Who does this work for other than fresh graduates? I don't want to spend a whole day (which I have to request off from my current employer) answering probably-silly technical puzzles as the first round interview (the 25 minute phone call doesn't really count since it sounds like just a pitch). Does a full day of whiteboarding really get you better candidates tha…

Wow, well the feeling is mutual, I wouldn't want to hire you! :) A day is nothing for someone looking to leave a current position. Take a day off of work, what's the problem? Seriously. You're leaving anyway. And then it's not like you can't just walk out on the interview at any time (say after the 2nd silly whiteboarding session) if you feel they are wasting your time. The most important part of interviewing is the…

Because it's not necessarily one day off work, it's one day off work for every potential job.

Re: Convincing engineers to join your team

#46

Post by throwaway8610 » Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 6:48 PM UTC

opportune wrote: post #27

ashelmire wrote: post #19

What's with the standard of doing a full day interview? Who does this work for other than fresh graduates? I don't want to spend a whole day (which I have to request off from my current employer) answering probably-silly technical puzzles as the first round interview (the 25 minute phone call doesn't really count since it sounds like just a pitch). Does a full day of whiteboarding really get you better candidates tha…

Nothing wrong with spending all day interviewing if you think you have a strong chance of the interview resulting in tens of thousands of dollars in raise/bonus/etc. Yeah, an actual full day of interviewing is probably more than necessary, but you need to have a strong signal of your ability. I think most technical recruiting at good companies is more about avoiding the possibility of hiring someone who is bad than t…

Let's assume I have to spend a day doing "something" at your company to prove I'm worthy of an offer of employment. What if instead of 6 randomly generated interviews left up to the whims of the interviewer it was 6 interviews working an a different aspect of a simple application? Time spent is the same but I think the latter would produce a much stronger signal.

Re: Convincing engineers to join your team

#47

Post by jtreminio » Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 6:50 PM UTC

jiveturkey wrote: post #39

ashelmire wrote: post #19

What's with the standard of doing a full day interview? Who does this work for other than fresh graduates? I don't want to spend a whole day (which I have to request off from my current employer) answering probably-silly technical puzzles as the first round interview (the 25 minute phone call doesn't really count since it sounds like just a pitch). Does a full day of whiteboarding really get you better candidates tha…

Wow, well the feeling is mutual, I wouldn't want to hire you! :) A day is nothing for someone looking to leave a current position. Take a day off of work, what's the problem? Seriously. You're leaving anyway. And then it's not like you can't just walk out on the interview at any time (say after the 2nd silly whiteboarding session) if you feel they are wasting your time. The most important part of interviewing is the…

Most developers won't just apply and interview at a single job.

I usually interview with 3 or 4 companies when job hunting, and I would hate to have to spend a day at each.

Re: Convincing engineers to join your team

#48

Post by 40acres » Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 6:52 PM UTC

ashelmire wrote: post #19

What's with the standard of doing a full day interview? Who does this work for other than fresh graduates? I don't want to spend a whole day (which I have to request off from my current employer) answering probably-silly technical puzzles as the first round interview (the 25 minute phone call doesn't really count since it sounds like just a pitch). Does a full day of whiteboarding really get you better candidates tha…

I like a full day interview because it allows me to get a good look at the office, the environment of people around it, and meet 4-5 prospective coworkers and get a fuller assessment.

However, the day is truly grueling. I interviewed @ Google Cambridge a few years ago (spoiler: did not get the job) and was exhausted by the end of the day I could barely think. My throat was parched from basically performing some sort of stream of consciousness dialogue so that my interviewers were able to assess my problem solving technique and going through corner cases. It's a marathon for sure..

Re: Convincing engineers to join your team

#49

Post by DoofusOfDeath » Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 6:55 PM UTC

avip wrote: post #43

wayne_skylar wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. I got recruited for a job I was qualified for yet didn't really want with a very high paying salary. I decided to go through the process to see if there might be something that made me change my mind. They requested a full-day interview. I asked if it could be broken up into two days and they declined. So I informed them that I didn't think I would be a good fit. There's so much bullshit that Facebook / Google e…

The word "recruited" implies you got an offer and signed it - not that someone poked you on linkedin.

I can't speak for anyone else, but my working definition of "recruited" isn't as specific as yours. The GP's usage was reasonable to me.

Re: Convincing engineers to join your team

#50

Post by tootie » Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 6:56 PM UTC

throwaway9412 wrote: post #4

Hear that everyone? "As a startup it's hard to compete with Facebook and Google compensation packages, especially for senior engineers" Also, Oracle apparently had a lot of success building out their bare metal (now cloud infrastructure) team by making uncharacteristically (for them) good offers. You can hire good people, if you're willing to pay them. Bullshit doesn't work anymore.

It's really tough for companies with low profiles or who need to hire for boring work. Not everyone can afford top dollar either. My current shop needs a lot of legacy system support and we have absolutely no choice but to hire second rate talent or rent them from body shops.