What Airbnb really does to a neighbourhood • Hacker News Board

Re: What Airbnb really does to a neighbourhood

#81

Post by wayne_skylar » Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 6:40 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #5

Here is where the rubber of “corporate responsibility” meets the road. So far AB&B has looked askance to the issues they bring to the table and have only taken token steps to mitigate what they have wrought on communities. They talk the talk all day long about inclusivity, implicit bias and any other terms du jour to shirk from confronting the gigantic mastodon in the room —the one sided effects their services have o…

This is where the bullshit 'making the world a better place' philosophy of Silicon Valley is lacking. Their morals and guiding principles are fucking garbage. Facebook asserts that 'connecting people' is somehow an unambiguously good thing. I'd argue that in its ideal form, social media is neither good nor bad. In practice it's actually an attack vector for those who are willing to sow discord. Facebook will never be able overcome its problems until they decide they want to be a force of good in the world where good is defined by some actual values that are aren't bullshit.

Same goes for AirBnB. They act as if they're providing some sort of amazing benefit to society when in reality, the negatives are felt by far more people than those who take advantage of their service. It doesn't withstand much scrutiny.

How about Uber? Despite what Uber might lead you to believe, it wasn't really necessary in NYC if you were smart enough to know to call a car service if there were no taxis in your area. Now that Uber has come along, all of the old car service drivers are forced to use Uber and taxi drivers are feeling such intense pressure that they are suicidal. Honestly I didn't mind waiting an extra 5-10 minutes for a cab. Now I can't find taxis in my neighborhood because Uber has taken over. So we have the same people doing the same job but are being paid less because Uber's cut is higher. And the benefit to me is that I don't have to talk to a person and might get home 5 minutes sooner? So for me, it's basically a wash, for the cab drivers it's a negative.

What's really sickening is that we've let them get away with it this long. We were so enamored with all of these new technologies we never stopped to consider if all the 'disruption' was actually going to be a net positive instead of a reorganization of existing power structures.

Re: What Airbnb really does to a neighbourhood

#82

Post by nerdponx » Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 6:43 PM UTC

burlesona wrote: post #31

nerdponx wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless there wasn't, and now there is because of Airbnb. Or an existing shortage was exacerbated by Airbnb.

I understand what you're saying but that doesn't contradict my point. If the appearance of AirBNB suddenly causes a housing shortage than there was presumably a lot of pent up demand for hotel-type space in the market that was being artificially restricted by hotel regulations, and the regional housing supply was fragile in the face of increased demand. Across the world right now most major cities are struggling in t…

hotel-type space in the market that was being artificially restricted by hotel regulations

is not the same as housing.

Re: What Airbnb really does to a neighbourhood

#83

Post by jrm415 » Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 6:43 PM UTC

guhidalg wrote: post #57

matwood wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think tourists pay a ton in taxes? I live in one of these cities and there are a ton of taxes that are geared towards tourists. In many way locals benefit with lower taxes because of all of the tourist income.

We’d have to look at numbers to argue this objectively, but I highly doubt that a tourist spending 1-2 weeks a year in a city will yield more revenue to the local government than a resident living there 365 days a year.

That's a strange comparison to make. I highly doubt that the resident yields more revenue over that 1-2 week period than the tourist, or that the resident yields more revenue over a year than a year's worth of tourists.

Re: What Airbnb really does to a neighbourhood

#84

Post by neom » Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 6:50 PM UTC

eerwrq wrote: post #63

jonny_eh wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One is mostly helpful (building housing) and one is mostly detrimental (banning airbnb).

How is banning AirBnB detrimental to the housing problem if it's also contributing to the lack of housing supply?

Indirectly: AirBnB can make buying a house more affordable by providing passive income to the home owner that could in theory be used towards mortgage payments etc.

Re: What Airbnb really does to a neighbourhood

#85

Post by thedirt0115 » Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 6:51 PM UTC

busterarm wrote: post #48

matwood wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> my city Your city? Interesting way to frame it. Maybe you were born where you currently live or maybe you moved there last year. Either way it doesn't really matter. Why do you feel the need to keep other people out of the city you currently live? The reasons that you live where you live are the same reasons other people want to live and visit. Why deny someone that ability to move or visit only because you got the…

Residents get preferential price treatment to visitors because they provide societal stability. It's the same reason why state residents get preferential tuition pricing to out of state residents. You give discounted state tuition because you don't want a state full of low-skilled dummies. You give residents an edge over tourists so you don't have a shortage of people to put out fires, cook food and remove garbage. I…

I think it absolutely is hard. Almost everything in life is more complex than most people think. Even in-state vs out-of-state tuition. Kids don't have control over where their parents choose to raise them. Why should Kid A have to pay twice as much to get the same education as Kid B just because Kid A happened to live 3 miles on the other side of the state border? That can make you feel trapped, like you're stuck in whatever little hellhole you were born in (especially if you have non-supportive parents). I can understand why a resident discount makes sense, but at the same time, sometimes I feel like it should be backwards -- give out-of-state residents the discount -- just to encourage new young adults to get out of what they've known their whole life as "normal", and see that things don't have to be like they are. Move the example just a little bit to kids from Brownsville, TX vs kids from Matamoros, Mexico (also To not be purely depressing, I'll present an example of something I think is a step in the right direction: At least some universities are good about giving out scholarships to low-income students that offset the difference between in/out-of-state tuition.

Re: What Airbnb really does to a neighbourhood

#86

Post by pc86 » Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 6:52 PM UTC

mcjiggerlog wrote: post #79

eerwrq wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, too, love externalities when other's bear the cost, and hate them when I bear the cost.

Heh. I am aware of the contradiction. My point is not all AirBnB usage is equal.

So it should be okay for your use case but not others?

Re: What Airbnb really does to a neighbourhood

#87

Post by busterarm » Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 7:03 PM UTC

thedirt0115 wrote: post #85

busterarm wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Residents get preferential price treatment to visitors because they provide societal stability. It's the same reason why state residents get preferential tuition pricing to out of state residents. You give discounted state tuition because you don't want a state full of low-skilled dummies. You give residents an edge over tourists so you don't have a shortage of people to put out fires, cook food and remove garbage. I…

I think it absolutely is hard. Almost everything in life is more complex than most people think. Even in-state vs out-of-state tuition. Kids don't have control over where their parents choose to raise them. Why should Kid A have to pay twice as much to get the same education as Kid B just because Kid A happened to live 3 miles on the other side of the state border? That can make you feel trapped, like you're stuck in…

not hard as in to grasp the concept of why it should be that way.

Re: What Airbnb really does to a neighbourhood

#88

Post by 0x4f3759df » Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 7:04 PM UTC

nix0n wrote: post #67

ritchiea wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just a lack of housing. Airbnb is changing neighborhoods by creating increased demand for vacation friendly activities and turning some areas into an effective full time weekend. It's taking popular neighborhoods like the Mission in SF or Williamsburg in Brooklyn or the Gothic quarter in Barcelona and turning them into 365 day a year tourist parties. Any neighborhood with a reputation for being hip, having a…

> Any neighborhood with a reputation for being hip, having art, music, bars etc. is now half populated by Airbnb guests at all times Why are there so few of these places?

That's a bit of a reduction. More like 'Any neighborhood in a world class city with a reputation ...' Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Kansas City could develop cool areas, but probably won't be overrun by AirBnB tourists.

Re: What Airbnb really does to a neighbourhood

#89

Post by pc86 » Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 7:09 PM UTC

ck425 wrote: post #13

grandmczeb wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not zero sum unless the housing supply is fixed - the additional income from Airbnb can be invested in new housing.

But that additional housing can also destroy the character of existing areas. That doesn't mean we don't build, just that it has to be considered, which is harder to do when demand is increasing too quickly.

Complaining about both the rapidly increasing housing prices as well as the loss of character in developed areas doesn't have any cognitive dissonance at all, though.

Re: What Airbnb really does to a neighbourhood

#90

Post by WalterSear » Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 7:11 PM UTC

pastor_elm wrote: post #29

burlesona wrote: post #25

How have we gotten this far into the comments without anyone mentioning the root cause here is a general shortage of housing in places people want to live / work / visit? It seems to me that AirBNB isn't to blame for the overall lack of housing (and temporary housing aka hostel/hotel) options, rather it's just the most visible brand name competing for the limited supply. Cities can ban it if they want, but I'd rather…

The root cause is that in many ways, housing is subsidized and cheaper. Airbnb takes advantage of that to undercut the hotel industry.

I'm not alone in my dislike for hotels.