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Emails while commuting 'should count as work'

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Re: Emails while commuting 'should count as work'

#91

Commuting should count as work

It does but only in sufficiently remote jobs. Oil rig commuting and business trips for instance - the standard is from "home base" workplace usually unless it is quicker to say take your work truck home and go directly to the work site some days.

Re: Emails while commuting 'should count as work'

#92

Please don't read/send email while driving. Use your bus/train time to study things that will help your career, at this job and the next. Don't just give that time away to your current employer for free - unless your employer is a charity. Edit: Even if you work for a charity, giving away your time for free may not be a good idea. ;)

As an employee of a charity, I don’t think working off the clock makes sense there either. ;) Charities pay for work just like anyone else. If you like, sure, make a donation. But make sure it’s formal. Otherwise you are robbing someone else of an opportunity to generously support the work AND if the “employee stretching to give” becomes organizational culture it can endanger the entire organization. Burn out is real…

Most of my experience is with non-profit orgs, but unlike a lot of people in the NPO space I have a fair amount of for-profit experience. I think people who work for NPOs tend to burn out at even higher rates than people in for-profit orgs because they get emotionally invested in the mission, fail to set reasonable boundaries, and because they typically make less than people who work for for-profit orgs and therefore have more money related stress and fewer resources to deal with stress.

Working for an NPO can be existentially rewarding, but I hear a lot of myths about how NPOs provide better work life balance, etc, and I don't think that's true at all.

I have a theory that a lot of people do things in certain ways in order to keep up appearances. For instance, a lot of startups waste a lot of money on things that are 'business-y' to legitimize themselves as a 'real business'.

To that extent, I find that a lot of NPOs waste a lot of resources appearing 'thrifty' (read: cheap). I've worked with a lot of NPOs that waste tons of employee time and money because they don't want to spend money because of the 'optics'. What this means is that getting anything done takes more time and energy at an NPO.

My specialty is database marketing, and I've literally done thousands of experiments across millions of mailed letters. I've found that for most donors, anything that can make a letter appear 'cheaper' improves response rate and the average donation. Most people interpret similar data as people preferring more 'personalized' letters, but I think that's because there is a lot of overlap between 'low-budget' and 'human touch'.

The irony is that at once place we spent more than three times as much per letter to make them appear cheaper.

This mindset also applies to people who work at non-profit orgs. People would spend 3 days doing stuff by hand rather than paying $100 to have it automated. On a similar note, I was stuck with an ancient Pentium 4 for a long time because the IT department bought them used. They were eventually replaced with Core 2 Duos. They were slow as hell, which was bad enough, but if you did the math the lifetime cost was much higher than buying a new computer due in large part to how much power Pentium 4's used. Not to mention it took them forever to upgrade from CRTs, which use so much more electricity than LCDs.

Re: Emails while commuting 'should count as work'

#93
post #77

Women joining the workforce increased the labor supply which decreased wages on the whole. This makes it so many women HAVE to work as opposed to GET to work. A double income for many families is required nowadays.

Women joining the workforce lead to a long term decrease in the labor supply. The only reason wages haven’t gone up is a massive influx of foreign born workers that keeps supply high.

From what I've read the birth rate has long been on a gradual decline as wealth has increased. That there was no sudden drop when women went back to work, just a continuation of the trend.

Re: Emails while commuting 'should count as work'

#94

Does this open the door for me billing my evening shower when the design finally clicks in my head?

I have a consultant friend that bills shower time. Of course, it's not a separate line item due to the questions that would arise, but he does include it in the total billable time.

They must have a generous time allotment in which to bill.

Re: Emails while commuting 'should count as work'

#95

Commuting should count as work

Oh no, lets not reward people who do not value their time, and choose to live further from work than others.

Then cities need to invest into noise reduction, pollution reduction, etc. Maybe it's not that people don't value their time, but rather value not walking streets which smell like trash.

Re: Emails while commuting 'should count as work'

#96
post #42
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's this black and white. First, I'm sure plenty of companies are basically stealing from their employees, but this is also situational. I answer emails and slack whenever I can. On the flip side, I get work from home privileges, I show up when I want, I leave when I want, and I get put on exciting projects instead of boring ones. People who don't check their phones after-hours cannot be trusted to lea…

Nearly all companies "steal" from their employees. If the company makes any profit whatsoever, that is surplus value which has not been paid to the employees who generated it.

That is a naive assumption - dating back to Marx who failed to see that not all value came from work of means of production and that the means themselves are not fixed. Intellectual work can provide continuous dividends for one. While factory workers may toil day in and day out the engineer who designed it do work.

Investors and management are intertwinned and blurry. Smaller businesses usually have them the same and larger ones must compete with the alternative of starting ones own and thus pass down dividends. Even the most hands off "useless idiot heir" has an indirect management role via who they ultimately choose to support and what they do with it.

Investment has a role aside from funding that they engage in by driving efficiency, expansion and the dreaded counterpart of contraction to match with demand.

We have empirical evidence that while management and ownership often do in fact do useful work. Look at how farm appropriation has ended in reduced yields instead of increased as one would expect when farmhands gain the benefits of more ownership. Instead their production plunged and they started experiencing increased crop failure. Which brings to mind the related fallacy that farming is simple.

It is true that management and ownership and investors are often overcompensated and worryingly self perpetuating at the expense of others - but they do in fact have a legitimate claim to profits.

Re: Emails while commuting 'should count as work'

#97
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use your bus/train time to study things that will help your career Or leave 45 minutes early and work those 45 minutes on the train.

That one is less socially acceptable, if at all.

Luckily for me acceptable where I work.

Nice deal for everyone: they get access to a larger pool of potential employees. I get to live where I want.

And I make sure I only write the hours I actually work while commuting. (Right now I'm reading HN instead.)

Re: Emails while commuting 'should count as work'

#98
I am guilty of triaging emails on the underground train in on the morning.

No one seems to have mentioned my perspective: Its not that I feel compelled to do this (far from it), its more that the commute is BORING AS HELL.

At least for London, the wifi and network is only available during the 30 seconds you are in a station (i.e. not in the tunnels), so more productive things that need a persistent network connection wont work very well (e.g. Duolingo, netflix etc). You cant even look out of the window since its in a tunnel the whole way! :-)

The other alternative to doing emails is reading cached news articles (I actually do this a lot - load up a series of 10-15 articles before getting on the train), or desperately trying to connect to the wifi then load a webpage in the 30 second window you have before you are back in a tunnel.

Or you can get paid-for Duolingo or download netflix shows the night before etc. Its all a bit of a faff though really, while your inbox is sitting there full of juicy unread emails from your colleagues in another hemisphere that you'll need to read at some point anyway .... too tempting to jump in and start triaging when your alternative is staring at the floor or the blackness outside the windows :)

Re: Emails while commuting 'should count as work'

#99
post #90

If your employer tracks you by the hour, then of course email while commuting is work. Also thinking about a design while taking a shower in the evening is work. Also waking up in the middle of the night and not being able to fall asleep because work issues are bothering you is work. Why employers (in the knowledge business at least) track people by the hour is beyond my understanding.

Why is it not work, if your employer doesn't track you by the hour?

Re: Emails while commuting 'should count as work'

#100
post #79

Women joining the workforce increased the labor supply which decreased wages on the whole. This makes it so many women HAVE to work as opposed to GET to work. A double income for many families is required nowadays.

At the same time, it's also given women the ability to survive and exist in society without requiring them to be married or otherwise supported by a man.

By giving up more freedom and time and being dependent on an employer? I think women should have the option, but my argument was that the option is no longer there, they HAVE to work now.
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