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Bullshit Jobs

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341–350 of 576 posts

Re: Bullshit Jobs

#341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crux of my argument isn't that it's ideal or even acceptable, but these staff provide services for the university and in the majority of cases, directly to the students - the university would struggle to fulfil the demands placed on it without 1) radical transformation of hundreds of services (and being a part of wider community, ensuring that community is still sustainable), 2) employing more people. Which cohor…

It has nothing to do with automation. You could just eliminate half of the administrative workforce at these universities overnight and the important parts would keep running just fine . For example, my university had a very extensive dining system, all within a block of town, which was full of restaurants. The dining halls were more expensive than the restaurants. But everyone had to buy a super-expensive meal plan,…

Really? Not being condescending, but have you worked internally at a university?

You'd probably be right up to about 80%. Then all of the edge cases come in and it falls down, having a real impact on students. If you want to operate a university on the Pareto Principle, then fair enough, but there's a whole lot that goes on that requires tweaks and human consideration which breaks fundamental systems, usually when students need them the most.

Re: Bullshit Jobs

#342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has nothing to do with automation. You could just eliminate half of the administrative workforce at these universities overnight and the important parts would keep running just fine . For example, my university had a very extensive dining system, all within a block of town, which was full of restaurants. The dining halls were more expensive than the restaurants. But everyone had to buy a super-expensive meal plan,…

Really? Not being condescending, but have you worked internally at a university? You'd probably be right up to about 80%. Then all of the edge cases come in and it falls down, having a real impact on students. If you want to operate a university on the Pareto Principle, then fair enough, but there's a whole lot that goes on that requires tweaks and human consideration which breaks fundamental systems, usually when st…

I’m curious why you think my university needed to force students into a meal plan and have a massive workforce to run the dining halls, when the private sector could feed students better food for less.

Or why did the university need a whole administrative department to cater to the “needs” of every kind of minority you can think of (one department per kind of minority)?

Re: Bullshit Jobs

#343
post #18

University administrators.[1] Stanford is busily building their new Redwood City "campus". It's all administrators . No students. No faculty. No research. 13 office buildings. 2700 staff. Initially, the campus will be home to Stanford employees working in such critical areas as the School of Medicine administration; Stanford Libraries and University Archives; the major administrative units of Business Affairs; Land,…

Scott Alexander has also written lucidly about this phenomenon ("cost disease"), e.g.

http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/02/09/considerations-on-cost-...

This increase in cost without a commensurate increase in quality is incredibly scary.

Re: Bullshit Jobs

#344
post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered staying at the current job, not showing up, AND getting another job? I realize this is unethical but is it actually illegal? One of my friend’s coworkers did this but I didn’t know the coworker well enough to see how it turned out. I have always been curious.

Pretty sure this is illegal as well, what with non competes and all

Can you deliver pizza's at night? Why can't you do another dev job? Sure there's risk, but the calculus is: $100k a year or $200k a year? Retire in 30 years or 10? I've had lot's of jobs that didn't even make me sign a non compete.

Re: Bullshit Jobs

#345

I am fairly convinced that bullshit jobs (and entire bullshit industries) exist as a consequence of the following things: 1) There is less and less actual work to be done due to technological progress; 2) There are economic incentives to create larger and larger organizations; 3) Society hasn't found a rational way to redistribute wealth yet. This is tragic. Entire human lives are being wasted on this dystopia of bor…

In regards to your second point, I often wonder what it would be like today had Reagan not started the trend of not enforcing the Sherman Anti-Trust Act. We are in a situation where we may end up having to break up AT&T, for instance, twice in a 40 year period.

Re: Bullshit Jobs

#346
post #219
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no bullshit jobs. I like David Graeber very much, but he is wrong on this. If you believe that we operate in a market economy, then by definition bullshit jobs would be removed. Government or public institutions may be less subject to the market, but even they are subject to it. Procedures and rules are critical. Most tech people make the fundamental mistake of thinking that because their companies are smal…

The article's last paragraph and link to book review[1] discusses this. [1] http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/11/30/book-review-inadequate-...

That's a fascinating article. I must admit that I've never really thought about the "shorting real estate" angle when discussing real estate bubbles, and it's a very interesting insight into why we keep getting them.

Re: Bullshit Jobs

#347

This may be an unpopular opinion but I don't believe BS jobs are prevalent in the private sector. Of course, bureaucracy exists, but that is hardly a new thing. There are outliers, but this is far from the pandemic presented here. Some of the arguments I keep hearing: 1/ I don't understand why X exists and therefore X must be a BS job. In the parent article, we read a premise that "someone invented a procedure", but…

If you dig into the bullshit jobs myth you will find it is all based on a survey from 2015. People were asked a yes no question, whether their own job made a "meaningful contribution to the world", 50% said yes and 37% said no.

I think the real bullshit is all the blog posts about economics without presenting hard data or being peer reviewed.

Re: Bullshit Jobs

#348
post #174

I am fairly convinced that bullshit jobs (and entire bullshit industries) exist as a consequence of the following things: 1) There is less and less actual work to be done due to technological progress; 2) There are economic incentives to create larger and larger organizations; 3) Society hasn't found a rational way to redistribute wealth yet. This is tragic. Entire human lives are being wasted on this dystopia of bor…

There are no bullshit jobs. I like David Graeber very much, but he is wrong on this. If you believe that we operate in a market economy, then by definition bullshit jobs would be removed. Government or public institutions may be less subject to the market, but even they are subject to it. Procedures and rules are critical. Most tech people make the fundamental mistake of thinking that because their companies are smal…

Similar to the old saying "the market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent" - the market is not instantly efficient, just over time.

There will always be work that has become bullshit that the market hasn't gotten around to killing yet. That doesn't mean they don't exist, or can't exist for a long time. Some even last lifetimes!

None of this means we can't do a better job helping the market remove the bullshit work, though.

Re: Bullshit Jobs

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you call 'negative sum' some of us call 'competition' and it's healthy considering the alternative dynamic of monopoly. All corporate systems could be described as various intertwining loops (that intertwine with other corporate loops), it's really a matter of efficiency of those individuals and loops as a system. Sometimes loops seem wasteful ... like lawyers ... until you actually do get sued or need to sue et…

I'm not criticizing competition itself. It's wasteful, but it's also necessary because this is how we solve resource allocation problems - we're too dumb to do it directly, so we use market dynamics to implicitly compute it for us. I'm criticizing runaway negative-sum games. Like where companies are competing for a fixed-size market - any marginal effort to win more of the market will be cancelled out by equivalent e…

> competition itself. It's wasteful, but it's also necessary > we're too dumb to do it directly

citation needed.

Humanity is planning the colonization of Mars, nuclear fusion and so on and yet, somehow, managing our own resources is always an unsolvable problem?

> I'm criticizing runaway negative-sum games.

They are inevitable with competition.

Re: Bullshit Jobs

#350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not criticizing competition itself. It's wasteful, but it's also necessary because this is how we solve resource allocation problems - we're too dumb to do it directly, so we use market dynamics to implicitly compute it for us. I'm criticizing runaway negative-sum games. Like where companies are competing for a fixed-size market - any marginal effort to win more of the market will be cancelled out by equivalent e…

I don't think it would be. I think if everyone stopped advertising unit sales would crash. Coke vs Pepsi is much less of a thing than the constant reinforcement that you would really, really enjoy one or the other right now. The constant reinforcement drives absolute sales, not just relative market share. I think the problem is more that a lot of heavily advertised products are incredibly harmful to personal and envi…

> I think if everyone stopped advertising unit sales would crash.

It did not happen when some countries switched to much more strict advertising rules.

People don't stop eating, drinking and buying medicines. Or start saving money that will never be spent.

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