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Bye bye BetterSlack

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211–220 of 392 posts

Re: Bye bye BetterSlack

#211
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you mean this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craigslist_Inc._v._3Taps_Inc . It seems unlikely to apply to a Chrome extension: Craigslist Inc. v. 3Taps Inc., 942 F.Supp.2d 962 (N.D. Cal. 2013) was a Northern District of California Court case in which the court held that sending a cease-and-desist letter and enacting an IP address block is sufficient notice of online trespassing, which a plaintiff can use to c…

What would keep it from applying to an extension? It says sufficient, not necessary and sufficient.

For one thing, the extension author is not an active participant and cannot be considered to be trespassing. A user, maybe. But I don't think we'll see Slack banning users anytime soon.

Re: Bye bye BetterSlack

#212
post #204
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of Chrome Web Store’s terms is that a developer is not allowed to publish an extension that “knowingly violates a third party’s terms of service.”[1] So even if the author has the 1st Amendment right to publish the extension on his own website, Google will likely take it down from the Chrome Web Store. [1]: https://developer.chrome.com/webstore/terms

What if it's a greasemonkey script?

greasemonkey doesn't target specific website. It's a generic approach.

Re: Bye bye BetterSlack

#213
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two problems with this approach: 1. I don't want to get involved in that, even if I'm based in Uruguay and they'd have a hard time suing me. 2. What they could do is put resources to detect the extension and block it. We could start a mouse and cat game that they'd win... I don't have their resources to invest in it. After all, all I wanted was to solve Slack for me, and that would make it harder.

Could they really sue you for creating a chrome extension that modifies their webpage? That would be a very dark day for the internet. I can't imagine there's any legal basis for that, but it would be very interesting to hear a lawyer's opinion. Well done on what you have achieved, keep fighting the good fight!

IANAL -- but I've been on the receiving end of a MegaCorp's C&D for alleged violations of the Copyright Act, the CFAA, and other things.

The biggest thing is Terms, which will almost always exclude any tampering of any kind, client or server side. These agreements are usually upheld in the US. So that's hurdle #1.

The CFAA isn't really obviated by client-side modifications, because the CFAA allows essentially arbitrary definition of "unauthorized access" and "exceeding authorized access". If they tell you to cease and desist, most judges won't believe that you can reasonably claim that you didn't know your access was unauthorized. The CFAA makes unauthorized computer and network access illegal.

There's a third barrier here, which is copyright law. The "RAM Copy doctrine" is the dominant interpretation, and it states that even the temporary copies that exist within RAM are sufficiently tangible to qualify for copyright protection, meaning you either need a license from the rightsholder or you need to prove fair use just to load the content.

The only way I can see that that wouldn't affect client-side applications would be if they access everything through a proxy without ever actually loading the copyrighted content directly, i.e., by injecting and accessing the DOM through the browser. But you'd still have to convince the judge that the extension itself is not infringing on the work it alters, which seems unlikely -- it would likely be considered a derivative work.

Again, I'm not a lawyer. Maybe all this is wrong. You shouldn't rely on it. But the situation is not as dreamy as people think. BigCos keep this bully pulpit relatively quiet because it makes it easy for them to crush upstart competitors who may offer a "move your profile from $X" feature. With the data locked up, the users never move.

Re: Bye bye BetterSlack

#214
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would keep it from applying to an extension? It says sufficient, not necessary and sufficient.

For one thing, the extension author is not an active participant and cannot be considered to be trespassing. A user, maybe. But I don't think we'll see Slack banning users anytime soon.

The intent is clear. I don't know the details of those decisions but Blizzard has won cases and stopped people from distributing tools that access their services in ways they don't approve of.

Re: Bye bye BetterSlack

#216

"we prefer that you do not include the word “Slack” in your product’s name." From the people who had no problems naming their product identical to the colloquial name of the oldest maintained GNU/Linux distribution, thereby confusing the hell out of actual technical people for the longest time with press releases. Also, Bob Dobbs called... (Edit: you can take away my upticks, but you will never take away my slack. "H…

Wow a subgenius! That sure brings back memories.

Re: Bye bye BetterSlack

#217
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slack is no longer for "hackers". It's mainstream now. My company of 500 with only 30 devs uses it. These are power moves by Slack. They want to have greater control over the communication medium and presentation If you thought they were ever going to support extensions of their IRC gateway for long, then you misunderstood their product and who their market was or rather who their market became

> My company of 500 with only 30 devs uses it. Same at my workplace. Slack is mostly used by the managers, all the devs avoid it. Even if you don't mind the proprietory protocol, the performance even on beefy machines is an absolute dumpster fire, that nobody wants to touch the app with a ten foot pole.

My company of I dunno, with some 2000 devs uses it. Mainstream is the right word.

Re: Bye bye BetterSlack

#218

At GitHub, we faced the same issue when ZenHub [1] came out with their chrome extension. While, Slack is well within their rights to _ask_ you not to modify their user experience, it's short sighted of them to do so. With ZenHub, we worked with them even closer because we saw that our users were happier using GitHub + ZenHub. We made it super clear that UI changes would likely break their app but that would be a risk…

I just reached out to joe (of this post) and I now recommend geteventbot to everyone. Small businesses run by responsive leaders like that deserve our $$$s

Re: Bye bye BetterSlack

#219
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see all of these comments in here telling you that Slack doesn't have a leg to stand on, that you should do your best to stick it to them, that you're in the right, that you should ignore them, etc. Meanwhile, I'm thinking, "If I were in this person's shoes, I'd probably distribute it privately to a few people who might want it, and in spite of all the hard work, let the project die in official capacity." On princi…

Especially since anyone thinking it should continue can just fork and do so.

Especially someone who has no existing contractual, customer, or ToS relationship with Slack.

Re: Bye bye BetterSlack

#220
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The heart of their complaint was not the name. It was the fact that the extension injects code into their site.

So, even more nefarious, and in violation of their terms?

Those terms bind Slack users. This problem goes away if the maintainer doesn't use Slack and has never used Slack. It wouldn't be efficient, but it'd be possible.
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