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Is Rails still relevant in 2018?

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Re: Is Rails still relevant in 2018?

#321

Post by mark_l_watson »

eahman16 wrote: post #72
fsloth wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"C++ in 2018? SURE (You masochist)" I know this is tongue in cheek, but if one is doing anything related to real time graphics programming I'm not aware of any good alternatives.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with C++ if you use a small subset of it, like for example Carmack did in Doom 3. The only problem that arises with C++ is when people want to use EVERYTHING in the language, because if it exists, it has to be in my project, right?

Great point. I used to use C++ a lot on Nintendo video games, government contracting, etc. I always used a subset. Three of my favorite current languages are Haskell, Common Lisp, Scala - and I use small subsets of those languages also. I think it makes sense to look at complex languages filtered by what your needs are and decide on a set of features you really need. For me, this makes my code easier for me to read and modify in the future.

Re: Is Rails still relevant in 2018?

#322

Post by douglaswlance »

JamesAdir wrote: post #291

The number of the language occurrences in August 2018 Who is hiring thread: React 377 Python 306 Node 153 Ruby 118 Rails 113 Django 69 Just numbers to think about. It's not scientific in any way.

Occurrence is an interesting metric. It'd be great to see the pay ranges associated with the number of occurrences. It may be easier to get a React job because there are so many, but if the pay is much lower, then it isn't a good idea to focus on that avenue of attack.

Re: Is Rails still relevant in 2018?

#323

Post by nurettin »

bdcravens wrote: post #319
nurettin wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is more to textile than displaying and selling clothes. But, YMMV.

Sure, but much of that process isn't customer facing. I tend to draw inferences when I read "website" as opposed to "web application".

Is this a personal and subjective opinion of yours, or some sort of documented distinction?

Re: Is Rails still relevant in 2018?

#324

Post by gm-conspiracy »

bsenftner wrote: post #156
fsloth wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"C++ in 2018? SURE (You masochist)" I know this is tongue in cheek, but if one is doing anything related to real time graphics programming I'm not aware of any good alternatives.

I write integrated servers with the web server, the database server, a video server, and a facial recognition application all bundled together in C++. The application screams: try 1/16th the memory footprint of a traditional multi-server Internet application, it is 4000% faster, and can run on a $100 Intel Compute Stick. Try this in any other language...

Is this for an art installation or does it have a more business-oriented purpose?

Re: Is Rails still relevant in 2018?

#325

Post by pythonaut_16 »

0xADEADBEE wrote: post #297
pythonaut_16 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might know Python but it sounds like you don't know Django very well. Django does have built in JSON support[1]. There's also Django Rest Framework[2], which while not built into the core, is well supported and hardly a burden to add. And finally, Django's "scaffolding" functionality is built around its models. You define your model as a plain Python class inheriting from Django's model class, and then the variou…

I fear you've contrived to miss both underlying points. In order to access a JSON endpoint in Django, I need to install DRF, integrate it with Django, configure it, edit my urls.py and perhaps set up a serialiser. I won't detail the procedure in your first link because I think you very well know that is simply a response object with a crude serialiser and a content header set. The inclusion of both misses the point,…

We'll have to agree to disagree about Django. I think Django and Rails both offer good developer productivity/velocity, they just make different tradeoffs. Django tends to be more explicit, which might lead to a slightly higher learning curve, but after that I've found it's easier to trace through Django applications to understand what's happening.

I've seen my fair share of terrible Django and terrible Rails applications. Bad code can be written in any language and framework.

Don't get me wrong, Django definitely has its pain points, but I think it offers a very competitive alternative to Rails.

I definitely agree with you on Phoenix though! Elixir/Phoenix is my current stack of choice. I actually think they do a really great job of capturing the high points of both Rails and Django while also improving on the weak points of both as well. (For example, Phoenix offers a lot of the "magic" of Rails but it's all backed by explicit code that Phoenix generates while creating your project.)

Re: Is Rails still relevant in 2018?

#326

Post by zzzeek »

chamilto wrote: post #292
zzzeek wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Python is a strongly typed language and language dynamism has no relationship to strong typing. you're likely thinking of static typing. With Python's type annotation feature as well as the work being done with MyPy, Python is also beginning to grow some static typing behavior as well.

First of all, zzzeek, thanks for your great software. While working on SQLAlchemy, have you ever run into situations where you really missed static typing? Do you ever see yourself wanting to introduce Python's static typing behavior into that project, and why or why not?

I did nothing but Java from around 1998 to 2002 and then again around 2006-2008, and there is definitely a deep satisfaction when you have built your giant statically typed castle and compile it and then it runs the first time. In Java though, obviously the verbosity that implies, particularly when I was using it pre-generics, most certainly erased any productivity gains and made for code that was very difficult for new people to understand, tests were in particular extremely hard to write. So at least with Java's widely criticized model, it was sort of nice-ish but hard to say it was worth it.

What Python is doing with typing I think is going to be amazing though. Just not sure if I'll have time to embrace it fully within my own projects.

Re: Is Rails still relevant in 2018?

#327

Post by RhodesianHunter »

sureaboutthis wrote: post #296
wgerard wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hyperbole, but the point is that vanilla JS couldn't accomplish it easily without a lot of headache. Handling browser compatibility alone made jQuery extremely useful back when it first emerged.

It could be accomplished just as easily by writing your own function just as jQuery did. My point is that such wording, as above, gave people the impression that jQuery was not javascript and you could not accomplish things in vanilla js. Such false impressions are still around today.

> by writing your own function just as jQuery did

Sure, and we could all just design our own chips, hand code our own binary to create our custom programming language we use for everything... But humans have a neat ability to benefit from other humans' work.

Re: Is Rails still relevant in 2018?

#328

Post by mrmondo »

pjmlp wrote: post #70
mosen wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you think .NET Core 2.0 MVC compares to Rails nowadays? I've been insanely productive with it. Willing to give Ruby/Rails a try, though.

Faster in every sense. Go with Ruby/Rails if you don't need the JIT/AOT compilers and high performace GC algorithms.

Just FYI - Ruby 2.6 has JIT, not far off being released: https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/news/2018/05/31/ruby-2-6-0-prev...

Re: Is Rails still relevant in 2018?

#329

Post by lmm »

wastedhours wrote: post #311
lmm wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the project's successful. The chance that most of what we're building with Rails hits the required escape velocity to require something other than Rails is a "Nice Problem". > For the vast majority of things people are building for the web, "CRUD+Auth+Billing" is all that's needed, maybe with a few API hooks into something more novel running on different infra. > If you then need it, then you can just build out…

Rails can take you much further than MVP though, as evidenced by all of the companies that reach breaking point with it. Basecamp, Github, Shopify - all reached proper business status on Rails (arguably Twitter too, although business is a bit of a stretch...). We can argue it from both ends, but I see Rails as the middle ground, and allows you to go from MVP to $XXm ARR on the same stack. A hacky MVP with 30 npm pack…

> A hacky MVP with 30 npm packages doesn't have a clear path up the tree to grow without serious changes

I see it as the opposite: it's clear which functions are the responsibility of which library, and it's easy to replace the ones that are becoming blockers and leave the ones that aren't. Whereas with Rails if you keep it monolithic then upgrades always become a huge pain point, but if you try to cut out pieces of it you're going against the grain.

(I used to love TurboGears nearly a decade ago, because you could use it like a monolithic framework to start with but it was explicitly a collection of standalone libraries underneath, and so once you started needing to do different things to individual pieces it was easy to. The modern web ecosystem could do with something like that, IMO (though personally I'm sticking to ScalaJS for the type safety))

Re: Is Rails still relevant in 2018?

#330

Post by kazinator »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #321
eahman16 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with C++ if you use a small subset of it, like for example Carmack did in Doom 3. The only problem that arises with C++ is when people want to use EVERYTHING in the language, because if it exists, it has to be in my project, right?

Great point. I used to use C++ a lot on Nintendo video games, government contracting, etc. I always used a subset. Three of my favorite current languages are Haskell, Common Lisp, Scala - and I use small subsets of those languages also. I think it makes sense to look at complex languages filtered by what your needs are and decide on a set of features you really need. For me, this makes my code easier for me to read a…

It's widely noted that this "select what you want out of the language" works best if you're working by yourself or in a very small team, with no inclusion of third-party code, or no such code that doesn't conform to your restrictions.

It really is best if the language doesn't include the kitchen sink in the first place, if you want the code to be clean in the most general circumstances.

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