Live data from Hacker News

Trump Accuses Google of Burying Conservative News in Search Results

nytimes.com

91–100 of 114 posts

Re: Trump Accuses Google of Burying Conservative News in Search Results

#91

Try searching for "American inventors" or "American scientists" on Google and tell me if you notice anything odd.

Search "American inventors" with the quotes and you'll get what you're looking for. Without the quotes you have to assess each word individually and with order independence. The "American" portion of the search phrase will result in a higher connected relevancy for "American inventors" who are also "African American" due to their shared keyword space. This is also probably why you're not seeing similar results when trying to repeat the experiment for other countries.

Re: Trump Accuses Google of Burying Conservative News in Search Results

#92
post #64
post #18

Yikes this is a complex topic. There’s a couple of things at play: Google does control (unbiased or biased) a significant portion of what internet users see This control has the potential to sway public opinion, direct discourse, and economically make or break businesses (even those that extend beyond media) Personally I believe gigantic internet companies like Google require more regulation because they can’t be tru…

Google has created ridiculous conditions where there is a massive arms race to be on that first result page on any give subject. The truth is Google results should not exist for anything and everthing. Especially ambiguous subjects. Who does anyone think wins these arms races that are being set up? It is as retarded as having the supreme court pumping out decisions in real time. Why does that not happen? The tech exi…

Are you literally suggesting that for some of the most important queries that people make Google should just return no results because it is too hard to decide who is on top?

Re: Trump Accuses Google of Burying Conservative News in Search Results

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You found an alt-right blog complaining about a glitch in an algorithm that accidentally promoted afraican americans? Shocking.

In all seriousness, are we not allowed to complain about glitches now, particularly if the glitch means 'increased diversity'?

It is called understanding context. This isn’t a thread about weird tech glitches it is a thread about Donald Trump accusing Google of liberal bias; something that apprentlly involves showing more black people than neccassary in search results.

If you lay out the game theory brining this up in this context you are implying that this is part of some vast liberal conspiracy. That is the problem.

Re: Trump Accuses Google of Burying Conservative News in Search Results

#94
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all seriousness, are we not allowed to complain about glitches now, particularly if the glitch means 'increased diversity'?

It is called understanding context. This isn’t a thread about weird tech glitches it is a thread about Donald Trump accusing Google of liberal bias; something that apprentlly involves showing more black people than neccassary in search results. If you lay out the game theory brining this up in this context you are implying that this is part of some vast liberal conspiracy. That is the problem.

Well, that's a slightly different question.

If the article is on Trump claiming that Google politically biases search results, Google having a history of returning suboptimal results in a way that is "stereotypically liberal" would be some decent supporting evidence - someone having done something before increases the prior probability of them having done so again. If that's actually accurate, of course.

Now, it seems pretty clear to me that this was a bug (and one I see in other, non-political search results) and that lowers the credibility of the criticism. I'd still rather have both sides make their strongest arguments though, and that includes pointing out prior occurrences that might suggest a pattern.

Re: Trump Accuses Google of Burying Conservative News in Search Results

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Google is better than government (you can go for a competitor) and it's better than a decentralized search engine (if anything the swaying of public opinion calls for a closer control of what Google shows people. If Facebook didn't have any censorship policies at all, the incidents of 2016 would have been worse.) - Google never promised you to give you truth all the time (for most of the things people search for th…

The question isn't whether Google is 'better' than government, it's whether Google's proprietary algorithm can be trusted to be unbiased. If Google is found to be biased, that doesn't necessarily mean government should step in but at least the market can account for this bias once they know about it. The media has been squawking that Trump is wrong (CNN: "Media says Trump search is rigged. It's not."). Wrong or right…

Search is, by definition, biased. A completely unbiased search engine is completely useless to everyone. Some result is going to take that coveted first spot, and several results are going to fill up the coveted first page. In order to narrow down all the results and be useful some bias is going to show up. I don't go to Google (or Bing, or DuckDuckGo, or etc) because I want an unbiased search. Precisely the opposite. I go because I think their bias gives the best results.

If Google were unbiased in its search results you would search for tigers and get random results having nothing to do with tigers because maybe that's really the page you wanted and you don't want bias in your search results. Even allowing that every search result has to have the word tiger in it, there's a vast difference between getting the Wikipedia article on tigers vs some random MC Hammer fan-fic that mentions one time that his pants had tiger stripes.

An example to drive the point home: Where are my keys? A biased search would look first in the places I think they are most likely to be, and those places will be biased by me according to what I normally do with my keys, where I normally go, where I normally use them, etc. My keys are more likely to be in my pants pocket than, my wife's, and certainly more likely than some stranger's (though there is non-zero percent chance it could be in any of those). But an unbiased search for my keys would say that any place is equally likely. Even reducing it to all places that a human could have traveled to in the time since I last saw them biases the search by supposing that advanced life-forms with faster-than-light travel took my keys to Alpha Centauri overnight. Plenty of people believe this could possibly be the case, and a search for my keys that doesn't take that into account is biased against these people and their beliefs.

I agree with your last statement, though. Rightly or wrongly, this may cause Google to change which direction they are biased in. It could also just be an opportunity for others to try different search engines to see which bias they prefer, whereas previously they had never considered it.

Re: Trump Accuses Google of Burying Conservative News in Search Results

#97
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would wager it's not the default list resulting from their algorithms, and was in fact explicitly manipulated to present the list you see now. The original article claims something similar albeit on a different search result. the underlying idea is that google is not just using pagerank and algorithms to show us the current state of the internet. But rather is adding their own bias to push up / down certain results…

An idea for which absolutely no proof is offered. "Im seeing what I consider to be an insufficient number of white people" does not prove or provide evidence that the results were either hand curated or created with some sort of nefarious purpose.

> "insufficient number of white people"

That is unfair. This result is very different from a search like "USA inventors" which is semantically similar and it is an interesting discussion to have, why that is. I make no claims about what the results 'should' look like from a societal perspective.

And ultimately I agree with your criticism, it was too hasty on my part to claim google did this purposefully. Some of the ideas in the sibling threads offer very plausible alternative reasons which could have caused this difference.

Re: Trump Accuses Google of Burying Conservative News in Search Results

#99
post #8

Surely there’s a way to study this and generate some meaningful statistics on whether Google (and others) actually bury conservative stories. Or maybe it’s already been studied, and either supported or rebutted.

First you have to figure out what a "consevative story" is. Then, you need to figure out why a search for "Trump News" shouldn't bury partisan hackery on both the left and the right. "News" used to / ought to mean something about a presentation of facts, not some particular party's preference for what it would like the facts to be.

I guess the world used to have less facts, and now they have to choose which ones to publish?

Jk. Money talks, and outrage sells better than dry facts.

Re: Trump Accuses Google of Burying Conservative News in Search Results

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this got me curious and i found this post about this: http://www.unz.com/isteve/great-moments-in-google-american-i...

You found an alt-right blog complaining about a glitch in an algorithm that accidentally promoted afraican americans? Shocking.

oh I wasn't endorsing it. Just pointing out that someone else had already written about this key point.
Post reply on HN