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Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

nytimes.com

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Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#491

Post by sosense »

michaelmrose wrote: post #272
_8j50 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intolerance of anti-black people makes you intolerant,not tolerance of black people. That intolerance would be fine(I certainly don't tolerate anti-black people in my personal life) but I would want to make every effort to be professional and respectful towards a skinhead at work.

I would collaborate with my coworkers to get him fired. In the end after a few dozen unrelated complaints about random different things their supervisor would be thinking about getting rid of them.

Same goes for a Trump supporter too?

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#492

Post by dang »

mmirate wrote: post #390
charlesism wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Easily the majority of the US population > would hold at least one of those views. If the majority of the country holds a philosophy that favors the majority of the country, that doesn't automatically make it ethical. I won't insult you by bringing up obvious examples from American history. If you want to calibrate your moral compass, the right way to do it isn't always a show of hands.

> If the majority of the country holds a philosophy that favors the majority of the country, that doesn't automatically make it ethical. Congratulations, you've discovered why democracy is stupid.

Please don't post shallow dismissals here, and especially not ideological ones.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#493

Post by dang »

mce1123 wrote: post #442

This is why it's fruitless to argue with Marxists--they subjugate truth to layers of shifting context. Non-Marxist: Is true? Marxist: No. was/is/will be used against my political tribe, therefore it is false. Non-Marxist: Well, can it just be "technically" true in this narrow case if we ignore the greater context? Marxist: I don't understand what you're talking about. Non-Marxist: Can anything be both true and politi…

If there's one thing you could have done to make this ideological hell worse, it's drag Marx into it.

We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17864571 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#494

Post by kenward »

siruncledrew wrote: post #261
_8j50 wrote: post #84

Worked across very liberal and very conservative places in tech. Neither is pleasant. In my opinion, the American self-image and self-worth largely characterized by subscription to a political ideology is the problem. What bothers me is not dress codes,free meals,open offices,etc... But the very idea that a company would display or promote politics in the work place. Why are companies promoting "pride",donating to tr…

Honestly, having to worry about politics and beliefs at work only makes work more stressful. I just want to go to work so I can do a good job then go home. Stuff can still be accomplished and people can still be treated with respect without having to dive into their personal lives to judge them first.

I think that is ultimately everyone's goal. I doubt many people go into work wanting to deal with politics and beliefs. Unfortunately, the reality for many groups that these social/tolerance programs target is they cannot escape politics in the workplace due to being a woman/lgbtq/etc.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#495

Post by michaelmrose »

sosense wrote: post #491
michaelmrose wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would collaborate with my coworkers to get him fired. In the end after a few dozen unrelated complaints about random different things their supervisor would be thinking about getting rid of them.

Same goes for a Trump supporter too?

No I work with trump supporters we just don't talk politics and many are just deeply misguided not terrible people.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#496

Post by manfredo »

charlesism wrote: post #453
manfredo wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not talking about morality or ethics, I'm talking about tolerance. Only tolerating the things you think are morally right isn't tolerance - quite the opposite. Tolerance entails tolerating things even when you don't find them morally right. For instance, I think a closed border is morally bad - it's still an act of intolerance if I were to fire someone for supporting enforcement of immigration laws. This warped d…

I wanted to counter your points by presenting a hypothetical hiring example (one employee from a certain group, and another who votes a particular way), but that gets into an argument over whether certain US government policies are racist, and that's off topic for HN. As a general rule, I lob complaints at private companies. So I care at lot if Company X is doing ill to society (what I consider ill, at any rate). Whe…

> I wanted to counter your points by presenting a hypothetical hiring example (one employee from a certain group, and another who votes a particular way), but that gets into an argument over whether certain US government policies are racist

This is not the case, I have discussed affirmative action and discrimination without repercussions (presumably what you're talking about). No policy I'm aware of prohibits it on HN.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#497

Post by mce1123 »

dang wrote: post #493
mce1123 wrote: post #442

This is why it's fruitless to argue with Marxists--they subjugate truth to layers of shifting context. Non-Marxist: Is true? Marxist: No. was/is/will be used against my political tribe, therefore it is false. Non-Marxist: Well, can it just be "technically" true in this narrow case if we ignore the greater context? Marxist: I don't understand what you're talking about. Non-Marxist: Can anything be both true and politi…

If there's one thing you could have done to make this ideological hell worse, it's drag Marx into it. We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17864571 and marked it off-topic.

buddy, this thread is Marx all the way up and down.

but point taken. I'll keep overt politics off this site from now on.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#498

Post by dang »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #489
dang wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since this subthread went into generic ideology, we've detached it from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17864539 and marked it off-topic.

Isn't that story actually about generic ideology? The premise is that there is a set of acceptable ideas and people who disagree are unwelcome. Obviously people are going to want to talk about specific examples. Half this thread is about Damore, which is directly on point.

It's not; it's about something currently happening at Facebook.

I admit that the line is hard to draw and the root comment there had a foot on both sides of it. But we've learned that ideologically inflammatory threads do much better when they stay grounded in the specifics of the current story. If we end up with a bunch of angry flamewars burning in separate places about veganism, Stalinism, etc., all at the same time, that's one of the worst-case scenarios for this forum.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#499

Post by dang »

mce1123 wrote: post #497
dang wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there's one thing you could have done to make this ideological hell worse, it's drag Marx into it. We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17864571 and marked it off-topic.

buddy, this thread is Marx all the way up and down. but point taken. I'll keep overt politics off this site from now on.

> this thread is Marx all the way up and down

That's tarring with way too thick a brush. If we're going to have non-dumb conversations here, there needs to be room for some detail.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#500

Post by alsetmusic »

_8j50 wrote: post #163
austinheap wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called corporate social responsibility. Companies advocate for their bottom line and their employees at the same time. As a gay dude that grew up in Ohio -- and had people yell "fag" when I got my diploma at graduation -- I'm beyond happy that the next generation of LGBTQ engineers won't grow up with the same level of hate I experienced. The arc of moral justice is only bent when force is applied.

You only say that because it's convenient for you. You would not like it one bit at the conservative places I worked at. It really is a two way street and u-turns are allowed.

> You only say that because it's convenient for you.

I’m a heterosexual white male. It’s convenient for me to ignore the hardship of people who are outside my demographic.

I went for smoothies with a work friend who was outwardly gay and heard him called a faggot by a couple of random people when I realized how different life might be for someone who is not me. It was not great. It would be more convenient if I hadn’t heard that. The fact is, it happens.

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