Well, this can't be in Debian or OpenBSD. I like OpenBSD maintainer Theo de Raadt's take on the matter. He allows usage in baby mulching machines and usage for dropping atomic bombs on Australia:
Lerna relicences to protest ICE
11–20 of 162 posts
Re: Lerna relicences to protest ICE
#12This is fundamentally anti-free software and completely against the point of the MIT License. If you want control over your code, you should use your powers of copyright more carefully. EDIT: In particular, whats to stop ME from grabbing the code, and then giving it to Microsoft? What prevents a particular individual AT Microsoft from downloading and using your code? And what enforcement mechanism do you plan if you…
> In particular, whats to stop ME from grabbing the code, and then giving it to Microsoft?
IANAL, but this other part of the MIT License [0] would require you to include the restriction in the copy you give to Microsoft, wouldn't it?
> The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software.
> what enforcement mechanism do you plan if you ever discover that Microsoft is using your code?
I suspect the idea is, if this restriction is used widely enough, Microsoft themselves will have their legal department be sure to restrict usage of the given packages purely as a CYA move. Similar to how so many companies are allergic to the AGPL.
Re: Lerna relicences to protest ICE
#13This is fundamentally anti-free software and completely against the point of the MIT License. If you want control over your code, you should use your powers of copyright more carefully. EDIT: In particular, whats to stop ME from grabbing the code, and then giving it to Microsoft? What prevents a particular individual AT Microsoft from downloading and using your code? And what enforcement mechanism do you plan if you…
> In particular, whats to stop ME from grabbing the code, and then giving it to Microsoft? IANAL, but this other part of the MIT License [0] would require you to include the restriction in the copy you give to Microsoft, wouldn't it? > The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software. > what enforcement mechanism do you plan if you ever disc…
IANAL either. But...
> Permission is hereby granted, to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell copies of the Software
I mean, I've seen successful copyleft done before (ex: GPL). Generally speaking, you start by using a copyleft license as a base... unless you have lawyers of your own to do it correctly for you.
An MIT license is incredibly free, basically one step away from public domain. I apparently have the right to modify and sublicense Lerna. So... I could in theory, provide "Dragontamer Lerna" to Microsoft.
Again, IANAL, but these are the reasons why GNU worked very hard on their copyleft license.
> I suspect the idea is, if this restriction is used widely enough, Microsoft themselves will have their legal department be sure to restrict usage of the given packages purely as a CYA move. Similar to how so many companies are allergic to the AGPL.
But AGPL is at least copyleft and "legally viral" in nature. I'm not sure if MIT is a viral license.
Re: Lerna relicences to protest ICE
#14As usual, this is only valid if every contributor has agreed to the relicensing. Otherwise the project maintainers are infringing the copyright of the contributors by violating the license granted to them by each contributor. I see this all too frequently. It's scary the legal recourse people open themselves up to by not understanding licensing. That aside, I know very little about these companies involvement in "ICE…
> I know very little about these companies involvement in "ICE" and there's no references given.
Here's a few sources:
Microsoft employees call on company to cancel contract with ICE: https://www.seattletimes.com/business/microsoft/microsoft-em...
Amazon employees demand company cut ties with ICE: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2018/06/22...
Tech companies quietly work with ICE as border crisis persists: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/tech-companies-quietl...
15 Organizations Doing Business With ICE — and How Much They’re Making: http://time.com/money/5318933/organizations-doing-business-w...
If you were inclined to draw a very unfavorable comparison, many otherwise neutral companies did business with Nazi Germany. IBM was contracted to help with the German census, which then lead directly to roundups of Jews and the Holocaust: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2001/04/hitlers...
Re: Lerna relicences to protest ICE
#15As usual, this is only valid if every contributor has agreed to the relicensing. Otherwise the project maintainers are infringing the copyright of the contributors by violating the license granted to them by each contributor. I see this all too frequently. It's scary the legal recourse people open themselves up to by not understanding licensing. That aside, I know very little about these companies involvement in "ICE…
The MIT license has no restriction on applying additional restrictions, without the permission of the contributors. For example, MIT licensed software can be used in proprietary software.
Re: Lerna relicences to protest ICE
#16Regarless of your views on ICE, this doesn't punish those execs which choose to work with them. Normal devs now have to learn/use something else. This also goes against the principles of open source.
definitely will cause developer pain. We are already seeing issues being closed in typescript related to monorepo and lerna support. [1]
I think that if other repositories follow suit, imagine Babel doing something similar, it could cause a stir for execs, but until the cost to the company is greater than their business with the U.S. Govt it wont stop, and there will be a lot of crap before we get to that point.
[1] https://github.com/Microsoft/TypeScript/issues/25376#issueco...
Re: Lerna relicences to protest ICE
#17This is a ridiculous thing to put in a software license and a completely toxic subject in general.
Yea, these people have no culture of a political protest. Kids... Take your political concerns to your congressman / senator, leave your political views outside the door of your office. Anyways, they will learn
Re: Lerna relicences to protest ICE
#18As usual, this is only valid if every contributor has agreed to the relicensing. Otherwise the project maintainers are infringing the copyright of the contributors by violating the license granted to them by each contributor. I see this all too frequently. It's scary the legal recourse people open themselves up to by not understanding licensing. That aside, I know very little about these companies involvement in "ICE…
Can those companies continue to use an older version of the software with the earlier license?
Re: Lerna relicences to protest ICE
#19As usual, this is only valid if every contributor has agreed to the relicensing. Otherwise the project maintainers are infringing the copyright of the contributors by violating the license granted to them by each contributor. I see this all too frequently. It's scary the legal recourse people open themselves up to by not understanding licensing. That aside, I know very little about these companies involvement in "ICE…
Can those companies continue to use an older version of the software with the earlier license?
Yup!
Re: Lerna relicences to protest ICE
#20This is a ridiculous thing to put in a software license and a completely toxic subject in general.
Yea, these people have no culture of a political protest. Kids... Take your political concerns to your congressman / senator, leave your political views outside the door of your office. Anyways, they will learn
Can't wait for the day VC gets into spines