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Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

nytimes.com

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Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#421

Post by hegz »

taneq wrote: post #96
hegz wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was never a time when different ideas were tolerated. The things we tolerate have changed. Maybe the time you speak of was the time when all of your ideas were tolerated. In the past people tolerated the idea that it was OK to own slaves, now we dont. In the past people did not tolerate the idea that it is OK to be gay, now we do.

I grew up with the understanding that just because someone thought differently to me didn't mean they were wrong, and that it's OK for people to agree to disagree on some things while still remaining friends. This view has definitely gone out of vogue in the past 10 years.

So you are saying that +10 years ago, someone could tell their friends and coworkers that they were transgender and everyone would just reply "yeah alright, whatever is best for you"

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#422

Post by [deleted] »

prewett wrote: post #385
wwweston wrote: post #142

A couple of thoughts: * As much as I enjoy forwarding and debating my own political ideas in settings where I think there's an opportunity, I've never considered work a primary venue for this, and the premise that political diversity should be a priority for a business is one that doesn't seem to have any kind of supporting argument. Companies exist to organize an economic activity. Other activity is incidental. Idea…

According to the article the problem is not that the owners are doing what they want like Rand espouses, but hypocrisy, namely that they claim to be tolerant and are in fact acting intolerantly: “We claim to welcome all perspectives, but are quick to attack — often in mobs — anyone who presents a view that appears to be in opposition to left-leaning ideology.” (But I'm guessing Mr. Amerige wouldn't be much happier if…

[deleted]

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#423

Post by jeromebaek »

aluren wrote: post #170
_8j50 wrote: post #84

Worked across very liberal and very conservative places in tech. Neither is pleasant. In my opinion, the American self-image and self-worth largely characterized by subscription to a political ideology is the problem. What bothers me is not dress codes,free meals,open offices,etc... But the very idea that a company would display or promote politics in the work place. Why are companies promoting "pride",donating to tr…

I don't mean any offense, but it has been my experience that people who can afford to "put politics aside", so to speak, are people from demographics who didn't have politics "happen" to them. When you are gay or trans and a significant chunk of people find your mere existence revolting, when you are black and a significant chunk of people believe you are innately less intelligent and more prone to violence, when you…

You need to get a megaphone. Everyone needs to hear this.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#424

Post by aluren »

haberman wrote: post #233
aluren wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean any offense, but it has been my experience that people who can afford to "put politics aside", so to speak, are people from demographics who didn't have politics "happen" to them. When you are gay or trans and a significant chunk of people find your mere existence revolting, when you are black and a significant chunk of people believe you are innately less intelligent and more prone to violence, when you…

I understand your position. But too often people who have legitimate gripes with society (like you say) are quick to classify legitimate disagreement with an attack on their identity. Disagreement over a company's diversity policies (for example) is not inherently an attack on anyone's personhood, but it is frequently interpreted as one, and with great rancor. One definition of power that is sometimes given: "To lear…

>One definition of power that is sometimes given: "To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize."

I'm pointing this out because I see no one else did, but that quote is from Kevin Alfred Strom, a neo-Nazi convicted for possession of child pornography (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Alfred_Strom) and he really meant to convey not-so-subtle antisemitic undertones with it. I'm sure that's not what you meant, but I thought you'd wanted to know so you won't have this pointed out in a more formal context by less charitable people.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#425

Post by jakebasile »

taysic wrote: post #407
chrisco255 wrote: post #227

This has become a big problem. Look at WeWork. That company banned employees from expensing meals that happened to have non-fish meat. I can't think of something more personal than what people choose to eat. They are imposing their beliefs about diet on employees. It's full blown coercion. Some companies are taking the activism a bit too far.

They're not really banning eating such meals - they simply don't want to cover their costs. I don't really see the issue personally. There are many things companies don't want to cover which they get to decide on.

Say I work for WeWork and travel for work. I have a limited palate and like almost nothing that could be considered vegetarian and even less that would be vegan. I am now required to pay out of pocket for all my meals, when normally I could choose to eat at home, which is not possible thanks to my job requiring me to travel. Depending on the area I'm travelling to this could be a large expense that under normal conditions the company would cover, but because of the politics of the founders it isn't.

The arguments I've heard usually talk about how companies often don't pay for alcohol (which I think is also ridiculous, if I'm travelling for work I will be stressed and could use a nice drink to relax after the day). The flaw is firstly that food is required to live, and also just because some company doesn't have to provide for $ITEM doesn't mean it's not a nice thing to do for your employees.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#427

Post by bobdole12345 »

DuskStar wrote: post #348
bobdole12345 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't tho. If my co-worker is donating to Trump, and talking about kicking foreign workers out of America, they're literally talking about kicking ME out of the country. They're donating money to a politician who wants to make my life harder, and make my visa process less pleasant. I can tolerate my co-worker all day, but if they're working to make my life less pleasant and workable, they're going to feel some c…

Let's turn that around. In case it's not clear, these aren't my beliefs: If my co-worker is opposing Trump, and talking about bringing more foreign workers to America, they're literally talking about lowering MY wages. They're donating money to a politician who wants to make my life harder, and make my work environment more competitive. I can tolerate my co-worker all day, but if they're working to make my life less…

Here's why those are different: One is an abstract affect on your paycheck that may, or may not be real.

And the other is a definitive slight against my worth and my legitimacy as their co-worker.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#428

Post by AmericanChopper »

ianai wrote: post #206
whatshisface wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A person who believed in socialized healthcare but did not support gay marriage could well have been considered left-leaning in the US a decade ago.

That’s more of a cultural change than political on gay rights.

It certianly is a political change. We’ve only had one president in our history who entered office supporting gay marriage.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#429

Post by 52-6F-62 »

hpcjoe wrote: post #411
52-6F-62 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not the first time I've seen somebody attempt to align this quote with groups that sympathize with other neo-nazi sympathizers (I mean, knowingly or not). If this group is allying themselves with Alex Jones, then I would hesitate attributing this quote to their cause. This quote was explicitly about the nazis. [Utilizing it this way] It seems to do Niemöller a disservice, IMO. I sympathize with people are shu…

This is not the first time I've seen comments construed to mean something completely opposite from what was intended. This seems to be the argumentation tactic of this time. The poem was specifically about purging targets not aligned with the thought processes of those in power. When you leverage your power to come for the next group, and take them out of play with ostracization, ridicule, etc., or in the case of the…

I wasn't criticizing you. I just wanted to add clarity.

I likewise don't think Jones or his ilk deserve a free spot on primetime television or editorial column in a major newspaper or journal, nor do I think any media network owes it anyone to the extent that they need to provide them with a platform. Seems more in that camp to me.

Now that we're here, I do disagree with using the poem to defend the ideological kin of those he was discussing. If the group hadn't listed Jones amongst their list of the prosecuted then this wouldn't be a point of concern for me, and I'd think you had a point by employing the poem.

I think we're getting off the subject of the main thread, and the discussion surrounding your latter point is another separate and rather large one. I'm not sure we'd get very far here. But cheers.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#430

Post by DoofusOfDeath »

princekolt wrote: post #374
chrisco255 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with this "professional self" thing. I think you should bring your whole self to work...but sure, as with everything that should come in moderation. We all go to work to do a job, after all. But maybe the core problem is that we can't just agree to disagree, on some things. We have gotten to the point, as a society, that if you are right of center (in some circles), you're batshit alt-right crazy. And t…

> What the hell happened where everyone's trying to bite each other's heads off all the time? Here is the issue: while the left is saying "we need better healthcare, immigrants are a part of this country's foundations, and student debt will cripple the nation", the right firmly supports a POTUS that says "Mexicans are rapists, peaceful protesters are a disgrace, and the media is the enemy of the people." And the reas…

It sounds like you're assuming a pretty tight clustering of beliefs within the "left" and "right" camps.

Are you sure American individuals' beliefs really cluster that cleanly?

In particular, I wonder if you're accidentally equating "the right" with "the stated platform of the Republican national party."

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