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Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

nytimes.com

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Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#271

Post by mc32 »

woodruffw wrote: post #208
_8j50 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No,they are your coworker. Period. They're not your friend. They are not promoting neo-nazi beliefs at work or direspecting other coworkers,what business of yours is their neo-nazi activity? Peace has a price.

It's my business because, should they have it their way, I wouldn't be alive. Asking people to be tolerant of ideologies that pose an existential threat is contradictory at best.

This is a difficult question. Communism has led to countless unjust senseless deaths. Many people alive would be dead in a traditionally communist regime. Should we make communism objectionable as a political ideology? (note: I am not saying naziism should not be objectionable, just that we have an equally deadly ideology that has some acceptance)

These things are fraught with complication.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#272

Post by michaelmrose »

_8j50 wrote: post #238
jmeyer2k wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting point, however I disagree it's tolerance of one group that makes someone intolerant of another group. In other words, I don't think being tolerant of black people means I must be intolerant of white people. Karl Popper wrote about this idea called the paradox of tolerance [0] asking if you should be tolerant of intolerance. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

Intolerance of anti-black people makes you intolerant,not tolerance of black people. That intolerance would be fine(I certainly don't tolerate anti-black people in my personal life) but I would want to make every effort to be professional and respectful towards a skinhead at work.

I would collaborate with my coworkers to get him fired.

In the end after a few dozen unrelated complaints about random different things their supervisor would be thinking about getting rid of them.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#273

Post by exabrial »

tjr225 wrote: post #162
exabrial wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For starters: * anti-vaccination * anti-gmo I have a few others, but it saddens me to admit I don't have enough faith that HN is free speech forum.

Wha are you afraid of? Losing internet points? Give me a break.

You literally just proved my point with your response.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#274

Post by mnm1 »

mbrumlow wrote: post #11
xtracerx wrote: post #5

Not all views deserve respect. Depending on what specific views they are talking about a lot of the ones circulating should not be tolerated.

The problem is who decides what views should or should not be tolerated? Some would say if you eat meat you should not be tolerated. Others might think pro-choice ideas should not be tolerated. That aside, we really need to figure out as a society how to fix a few notions. 1) You have some sort of right to not be offended. 2) You must get outraged at anything you disagree with. There once was a time when two people w…

If you fix number one above, number two almost certainly will be fixed too. Maybe we need more and more "offensive" comedians and everyday people. The only way to fix a phobia like this is to super expose people to it. In this case, expose those offended to things that offend them. Over and over again. That's always been my thinking when I create literature for example. Shock people until they are numb. Because no one has a right not to be offended.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#275

Post by jeffmcmahan »

askafriend wrote: post #232
_8j50 wrote: post #84

Worked across very liberal and very conservative places in tech. Neither is pleasant. In my opinion, the American self-image and self-worth largely characterized by subscription to a political ideology is the problem. What bothers me is not dress codes,free meals,open offices,etc... But the very idea that a company would display or promote politics in the work place. Why are companies promoting "pride",donating to tr…

Your mistake is in thinking that you can separate out politics from "work" or any other concept. What you fail to realize is that everything is political. Everything. Politics isn't some concrete, easily identifiable thing you can point at. You can't separate out things into a "Politics" bucket and a "Not Politics" bucket. No, politics pervades every single human interaction. Politics is in everything and everything…

"[E]verything is inherently political."

My preference for the scent of lavender over cinnamon -- political. I'm against the designated hitter rule. Political too. I think my dog should not get into the trash. It's all politics.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#276

Post by woodruffw »

mc32 wrote: post #271
woodruffw wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's my business because, should they have it their way, I wouldn't be alive. Asking people to be tolerant of ideologies that pose an existential threat is contradictory at best.

This is a difficult question. Communism has led to countless unjust senseless deaths. Many people alive would be dead in a traditionally communist regime. Should we make communism objectionable as a political ideology? (note: I am not saying naziism should not be objectionable, just that we have an equally deadly ideology that has some acceptance) These things are fraught with complication.

Communism, expressed as the kind that killed all those people, is objectionable. I object to it, and it seems like a broad segment of the population agrees.

However, that just isn't the same as what I'm describing. There is nothing analytical about communism that poses an existential threat to me. Neo-Nazism, on other other hand, is a priori incompatible with my existence.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#277

Post by taneq »

_mhyx wrote: post #165
haha99 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enable "showdead" in your profile and you will see that anything that moves beyond the left is promptly flagged and, sometimes, the account gets banned for "starting flames".

But absolute freedom of speech IS A LEFT WING OPINION! Is no one here old enough to remember the fight over pornography or offensive language in art/music/movies? That was the right trying to shut down speech they disagreed with via corporate power! These people are _not_ liberals, they're something else that's new and terrifying

"The left" became "the progressive left" which became "progressives". The actual liberal left still believes in freedom of speech, the public perception of it has just been co-opted by militants with a different social agenda (conformity to progressive values, rather than liberal values).

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#278

Post by tjr225 »

exabrial wrote: post #273
tjr225 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wha are you afraid of? Losing internet points? Give me a break.

You literally just proved my point with your response.

I'm not following you? Is the point of your post that liberals can hold bad views(which I agree with) or is your point that you might be criticized? If it's the latter then I think that in fact you have proved my point - that holding back your opinions here is stupid. I guess it could be some mix of the two, but wouldn't that make the other point just some tool for you to express that HN is left leaning? What exactly is wrong with that (other than, you know, someone might disagree with you)?

And if you think HN is left leaning...I think that's insane. Just look at the comments here, read about you the blind libertarianism in almost any other comment section here. Are you kidding!?

In any case, I can't see how I "literally proved your point" unless the point of your post was something other than what it is overtly- and if that was your point then I still think being afraid of being criticized here is stupid.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#279

Post by charlesism »

manfredo wrote: post #249
charlesism wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Easily the majority of the US population > would hold at least one of those views. If the majority of the country holds a philosophy that favors the majority of the country, that doesn't automatically make it ethical. I won't insult you by bringing up obvious examples from American history. If you want to calibrate your moral compass, the right way to do it isn't always a show of hands.

Sure, but saying you'd fire the majority of the US population in the name of tolerance is absolutely contradictory. The notion that a blanket firing of 45% of the adult population is an act of tolerance is ridiculous. Sure I do think there are some views that should not be tolerated and employees who advocate them should be removed - none of the four listed there come close to it, though.

    > The notion that a blanket firing of 
    > 45% of the adult population is an act 
    > of tolerance is ridiculous.
Nope. It's perfectly moral, logical, and whether it's 45%, or 1%, or 99% makes no difference. The examples from history are too numerous to mention. You have to decide what your values are and stand by them.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#280

Post by rhizome »

maxerickson wrote: post #92
rhizome wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Step 1: buy 51% of FB stock.

51% of the voting power (probably) isn't available on the public markets. It's dual structured with Zuckerberg having special shares that make him king.

That's the joke. Culture comes from the top.
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