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California governor signs overhaul of bail system

latimes.com

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Re: California governor signs overhaul of bail system

#11

Post by maxlybbert »

syrrim wrote: post #3

If I had to speculate, I'd say this is primarily a reaction to improved ability to track people, such that it is next to impossible for a person to jump bail. You can't get on a plane, or otherwise try and cross the border, because your passport will be checked. If you drive across the country, then your credit cards/bank accounts will be tracked, and security cameras can pick up and recognize your face. I imagine th…

I remember reading somebody’s life story (I think one of my relatives), who mentioned that a strange man showed up on his doorstep when he was a little kid in the early 1900s. His father talked with the man, gave him some money, and sent him away.

Years later, the father explained that the man was the father’s brother, who had committed some crime before the turn of the century, and would occasionally show up saying he was down on his luck.

Whether the story was true, what stuck with me was the fact that there was once a time that somebody could leave town and largely create a brand-new identity. I guess it’s possible today, but it’s not easy. For starters, you need a social security number, and businesses are able to check whether those are valid better than they could a few years ago.

Re: California governor signs overhaul of bail system

#12

Post by akira2501 »

syrrim wrote: post #3

If I had to speculate, I'd say this is primarily a reaction to improved ability to track people, such that it is next to impossible for a person to jump bail. You can't get on a plane, or otherwise try and cross the border, because your passport will be checked. If you drive across the country, then your credit cards/bank accounts will be tracked, and security cameras can pick up and recognize your face. I imagine th…

> because your passport will be checked.

That's far more a concern for people trying to re-enter the United States. For those leaving, this is hardly an impediment.

Re: California governor signs overhaul of bail system

#13

Post by Analemma_ »

olliej wrote: post #4
syrrim wrote: post #3

If I had to speculate, I'd say this is primarily a reaction to improved ability to track people, such that it is next to impossible for a person to jump bail. You can't get on a plane, or otherwise try and cross the border, because your passport will be checked. If you drive across the country, then your credit cards/bank accounts will be tracked, and security cameras can pick up and recognize your face. I imagine th…

It's mostly due to the increasing evidence of: * Clear biases in distribution of bail vs. non-bail gated release * The substantially unbalanced cost of bail for poor vs. middle-class and up. Basically: if your bail costs $1000 and you make $50k/year you can probably arrange cash to cover it. If you make 20k/year you probably cannot, so your option is to lose $100 - bail bond is not returned to you - or you literally…

But the improved ability to track people probably helps sell it politically to the "tough on crime" crowd.

Re: California governor signs overhaul of bail system

#14

Post by jaxn »

rdl wrote: post #8

I'm not sure if I agree with this change (there are positives and negatives to the bail system), but I love that in a federal system individual states are free to experiment like this. Maybe it will work, and then other states can adopt it.

I can't think of good sides to the bail system. What positives do you see.

Re: California governor signs overhaul of bail system

#15

Post by olliej »

philwelch wrote: post #7
syrrim wrote: post #3

If I had to speculate, I'd say this is primarily a reaction to improved ability to track people, such that it is next to impossible for a person to jump bail. You can't get on a plane, or otherwise try and cross the border, because your passport will be checked. If you drive across the country, then your credit cards/bank accounts will be tracked, and security cameras can pick up and recognize your face. I imagine th…

People who skip bail, by and large, don't get on a plane or drive across the country. Also, the bail system isn't designed to only incentivize defendants themselves to show up to court. The bail bondsman has the financial incentive and the legal right to apprehend and deliver a defendant who has skipped bail. Removing the bail bondsman from the equation only increases the public cost of reapprehending these defendant…

You're missing the very basic point: bail hearings are before you're on trial. Which is the problem: even if you did not commit the crime for which you're charged, you end up in jail because you literally cannot afford not to. Then you lose your job, because you know, you were in jail.

There are innumerable cases where innocent people have been arrested (think protests that are protected by the first amendment, or simple mistakes, or malice) where the charges are dropped or dismissed. You could already have lost your job due to being wrongfully imprisoned, or if you could afford the bond you're out the bond (it does. not. get. refunded. It's pure profit for bail bond companies).

There are also cases where bail has been used to get people who are innocent to take plea agreements, which inflates police/prosecutor success rates while simultaneously allowing the actual criminal to go free. The basic statement is "take this community service plea or we'll set your bail too high for you to afford". Again, numerous documented cases of this exist.

Finally, a person who skips bail when they aren't having to pay money, are reasonably likely to skip bail anyway, and for the rich the money doesn't matter. Robbert Durst skipped bail on a $300k amount because 300k literally didn't matter to him, even ignoring the low amount that was asked - again, bias in bail system frequently results in significantly higher bail amounts for people of colour.

Re: California governor signs overhaul of bail system

#16

Post by jaxn »

Analemma_ wrote: post #13
olliej wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's mostly due to the increasing evidence of: * Clear biases in distribution of bail vs. non-bail gated release * The substantially unbalanced cost of bail for poor vs. middle-class and up. Basically: if your bail costs $1000 and you make $50k/year you can probably arrange cash to cover it. If you make 20k/year you probably cannot, so your option is to lose $100 - bail bond is not returned to you - or you literally…

But the improved ability to track people probably helps sell it politically to the "tough on crime" crowd.

Faster due process has a much bigger impact than tracking people down (which is both expensive and dangerous).

There will also likely be an increase in "no bond" holds until the court date.

This is a step in the right direction, but the entire incarceration machine needs an overhaul/downsize.

Re: California governor signs overhaul of bail system

#17

Post by olliej »

Analemma_ wrote: post #13
olliej wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's mostly due to the increasing evidence of: * Clear biases in distribution of bail vs. non-bail gated release * The substantially unbalanced cost of bail for poor vs. middle-class and up. Basically: if your bail costs $1000 and you make $50k/year you can probably arrange cash to cover it. If you make 20k/year you probably cannot, so your option is to lose $100 - bail bond is not returned to you - or you literally…

But the improved ability to track people probably helps sell it politically to the "tough on crime" crowd.

Bail does not effect your ability to track people - what tracking do you think it adds? Or do you mean the bit where bail ensure that all the arrested poor people are kept in jail?

Re: California governor signs overhaul of bail system

#18

Post by jaxn »

bodas wrote: post #10
philwelch wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who skip bail, by and large, don't get on a plane or drive across the country. Also, the bail system isn't designed to only incentivize defendants themselves to show up to court. The bail bondsman has the financial incentive and the legal right to apprehend and deliver a defendant who has skipped bail. Removing the bail bondsman from the equation only increases the public cost of reapprehending these defendant…

It would also be a lot cheaper to dispense with courts and replace them with private arbitrators with the power to send people to prison. A system where the decision on whether you go to jail or not is made by bail bondsmen is not just. If they decide not to grant you a bond, to where do you appeal?

Or dispense with prison in the vast majority of cases.
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