Live data from Hacker News

Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

nytimes.com

41–50 of 728 posts

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#41
post #25
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And those employees complaining were told they're not breaking any company policies. Their group is still open and nothing has been done against them. What a controversy.

They are uniting to change Facebook's culture, not internal HR policies.

You might even say they're 'culture warriors' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_Warrior

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#42

I guess sooner or later someone will link to these, so may as well be me :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://xkcd.com/1357/

If you're a social media platform that possesses such a vast, overwhelming monopoly as what Facebook has, then you are capable of censorship. Your status as a monopoly means the normal market rules no longer apply to you. That you comply with the first amendment should properly be a pass-through legal requirement as a condition of your status as a monopolist.

If they resist cooperating with that designation, despite their monopoly, then we must regulate them.

Split off Instagram and WhatsApp from the core Facebook platform as an anti-trust action. At a minimum legally mandate that all monopolist platforms must equally enforce all of their terms of service for all users and must do so in a publicly verifiable manner. If they fail at that task, drown them in fines until they go bankrupt or stop selectively punishing some groups while allowing others to do the exact same things without punishment. Ideally, regulate Facebook and all such monopolist platforms that deal with speech as a form of public square.

I dislike Roy Moore and his politics. That doesn't mean I think it's ok for all the car companies to conspire together as a group monopoly and deny Moore the ability to purchase a new vehicle to punish him. Or that it's ok for the couple of telecom monopolies to get together and deny him access to the phone networks.

Denying voices access to the public square - Facebook's social monopoly - is equally reprehensible. The most important speech we protect, is the speech of the ugly minority, which is what both the far left and far right often represent.

I don't like seeing Antifa clad in black body armor, marching around with Soviet flags urging the adoption of Communism and the overthrow of the US Government. I similarly don't like to see it on Facebook. I fundamentally disagree with them. We should protect their right to that speech and their right to have access to Facebook's monopoly platform.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#44
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a massive difference between calculated misinformation with incitement to violence and having differing views.

Sure, but I'm not the one who lumped those two together. That quote in the article says the conservative critics are the ones jumping to use Jones' ban as evidence of anti-conservative bias. The "critics" are self-identifying as Jones' allies. That is a red flag in my book since many of Jones' views don't deserve respect.

Alex Jones is not respected by most conservatives (even the hypothetical person who agreed with every single one of his views would still think that his delivery was a bit hammy). If conservatives are rallying around him, it's based on the idea that as soon as the least defensible person is gone, the least defensible person becomes whoever used to be the second least defensible, and so on, and so on...

It's almost the mirror image of the NRA strategy of saying, "don't ban any guns," because if you ban only the worst guns then a new set of guns becomes the worst guns, until you've banned every gun.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#45
post #5

Not all views deserve respect. Depending on what specific views they are talking about a lot of the ones circulating should not be tolerated.

The following views were listed on the memo: * Support of President Trump (e.g. Thiel's and Palmer Lucky's campaign contributions) * "All lives matter" * Criticism of Islam's human rights record. * Calling the company's art politically radical . Which, if any, of these views don't deserve respect?

The first three are deeply problematic and rooted in deep-seated white supremacist beliefs and absent mitigating circumstances I’d consider firing people who held them. Sorry, that’s just how I have to feel given everything that’s been going on these days.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#46
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. From the article: >This month, the social network barred the far-right conspiracy theorist Alex Jones, a move that critics seized on as further evidence that the company harbors an anti-conservative bias. Banning someone like Alex Jones is not an anti-conservative bias. It is an anti-asshole bias. No one is going to ban you for discussing tax policy.

There’s a massive difference between calculated misinformation with incitement to violence and having differing views.

> incitement to violence

good point, do you feel this way about people who say 'punch a nazi'?

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#47
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on who you ask. Saying something in public or doing something against some of the hot, left-leaning ideas of this time (feminism, or homosexualism) could very well get you fired. I'm sure you can think of examples... Problem is that some people want to lump, for example, "abortion is murder" and "burn all niggers" together so nobody can ever make the former point.

>hot, left-leaning ideas of this time >equal rights for women >equal rights for people regardless of their sexuality What is "this time"? The 1800s?

Western feminism is no longer a movement that does any appreciable work towards equal rights for women. They, uhh, kind of already have that in the developed world.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#48
Kind of moot considering how hard Zuckerberg stanned for Peter Thiel. How much was that Palmer Luckey payout?

I'd argue that if you're working for Facebook you're kind of superficially liberal to begin with. Zuckerberg is only liberal until he has to worry about his bank account.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#49
post #5

Not all views deserve respect. Depending on what specific views they are talking about a lot of the ones circulating should not be tolerated.

I do not respect your view that not all views deserve respect.

Then it seems like you both agree!

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#50

Scare quotes are around wrong word.

Some 'Facebook' Employees Unite to Challenge Its Intolerant Liberal Culture

Some Facebook 'Employees' Unite to Challenge Its Intolerant Liberal Culture

Some Facebook Employees 'Unite' to Challenge Its Intolerant Liberal Culture

Some Facebook Employees Unite to 'Challenge' Its Intolerant Liberal Culture

Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its 'Intolerant' Liberal Culture

Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its Intolerant 'Liberal' Culture

Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its Intolerant Liberal 'Culture'

Post reply on HN